Help with weird starting issues...

[ellusion]

My car can start everytime but in certain situations the car will crank for about 2 seconds and then start, compared to its usual half-second crank-n-start.

Here is what i've noticed:

-Car starts normally every morning or when it has been parked for more than 9hrs.
-Car will start normally if it has only been parked for under 10 mins.
-HOWEVER, car will need to be cranked for at least 2 seconds (and sounds real weak) when the car has been parked between 10mins and 9hrs.

SO why is it that it starts withing 10mins of being parked, AND afters 9hrs of rest but not in between?? DOes it have to do with fuel lines or pressure in fuel system??

Anyone have any idea????

[curtis73]

Could be heat soak into the starter, or a mild case of vapor lock in the fuel.

And I have to say... two seconds isn't a big deal at all. Have the starter tested.

It also helps if you tell us what kind of car it is... an EFI car gets a much different response than a carbed car.

[ellusion]

It's a mitsubishi 3000gt Twin Turbo.

How do i fix the vapour lock in the fuel?

What components being replaced should help eliminate this starting problem? Fuel pump?

[goongrinch]

get a fuel injection service done at any auto or lube shop

[ellusion]

is that also called an "injector-max" where they flush the whole fuel system with some sort of liquid? That has already been done...

[curtis73]

Now seeing the vehicle, I doubt its vapor lock. The fuel lines are nowhere near the hottest parts and even if you were getting vapor lock, its not likely to make a difference with EFI.

Sounds like heat soak into the starter. The starter draws more amperage when hot, and when they are starting to fail you notice it. They start drawing more amperage than the battery and cables can supply when hot.

The starter is the hottest after you stop moving and it has time to absorb radiant heat from the surrounding parts. If you re-start right away, it hasn't absorbed much, or if you let it sit till cold, its, well, cold.

Have that starter tested. I'd bet a 12-pack of Bud that's the cause.

[1mmueller]

Originally Posted by ellusion

My car can start everytime but in certain situations the car will crank for about 2 seconds and then start, compared to its usual half-second crank-n-start.

Here is what i've noticed:

-Car starts normally every morning or when it has been parked for more than 9hrs.
-Car will start normally if it has only been parked for under 10 mins.
-HOWEVER, car will need to be cranked for at least 2 seconds (and sounds real weak) when the car has been parked between 10mins and 9hrs.

SO why is it that it starts withing 10mins of being parked, AND afters 9hrs of rest but not in between?? DOes it have to do with fuel lines or pressure in fuel system??

Anyone have any idea????

Does the vehicle crank over fast when not starting? If it does I would not look at the starter. You could have many different issues. Do you know the condition of your fuel system? Fuel Trims? Pump pressure? Some general overall testing needs to be done.

www.OBD2Scanners.com

[ellusion]

Originally Posted by curtis73

The starter is the hottest after you stop moving and it has time to absorb radiant heat from the surrounding parts. If you re-start right away, it hasn't absorbed much, or if you let it sit till cold, its, well, cold.

I'm not that car-savvy so is my interpretation below right?

When the starter is hotter, it can absorb radiant heat which makes starting the engine more hard (ie cranking for 2-3 seconds).

If i re-start right away (ie within 10 mins) the car has not yet absorbed heat and can start perfectly.

When i leave the car over night or for at least 9 hrs, the engine is now cold and can start perfectly.

That all makes sense, but i hope my interpretation is correct. It would explain why my engine acts the way it does.

Now how do i fix this "heat soak?" DO i require a new starter?

[curtis73]

You're close. The starter itself absorbs heat from the engine. When the starter is hot, it draws more amperage causing the sluggish turn over.

Its not the starter making the engine hot, its the other way around. When you are moving, the starter has air blowing over it. When you stop for a few seconds it doesn't have time to absorb much heat so it works fine. If its stopped for 10 minutes, the starter gets really hot from all the radiant heat around it and it fails.

Think of it kinda like a steak on a grill. If you put a fan blowing between the coals and the steak, the meat won't cook since you're blowing the heat away, despite the fact that the coals are hot. If you turn off the fan the meat will get much more heat and cook. The same is true of your starter. The engine is hot, but there is air keeping things like the starter cool. If you stop the car, the starter gets cooked.

Under normal circumstances its fine, the starter can take it, but as the starter ages, it can't handle the heat like a young one can.

And... yes, if the starter is in fact bad, the fix is to replace it with a remanufactured one.

[1mmueller]

So is it a cranking slower than normal problem? Or does it crank fast just not firing? What kind of vehicle is it?


www.obd2scanners.com

[ellusion]

The car is a Mitsubishi 3000GT Twin Turbo. When it has trouble starting, the cranking sounds the same; it just cranks for longer before the engine actually fires up.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by ellusion

-HOWEVER, car will need to be cranked for at least 2 seconds (and sounds real weak)

This is why I thought it was the starter, but now you say it cranks fine... I'm confused

It might just be a sensor that is out of spec, intake air temp, MAP, fuel pressure... but I'll say it again, 2 seconds is not a long time. Chevy put out about 8 years of EFI trucks that cranked longer than that from the factory.

Did this happen suddenly, gradually, always happened?

[ellusion]

"HOWEVER, car will need to be cranked for at least 2 seconds (and sounds real weak)"

When i say this, i mean that because it cranks for longer it makes the car sound weak. The cranking sound is the same, but just goes for longer before starting up.

I will get the starter checked out. Your explanation does seem to explain why my engine has the problems depending on the period of time the car is parked for.

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by ellusion

"HOWEVER, car will need to be cranked for at least 2 seconds (and sounds real weak)"

When i say this, i mean that because it cranks for longer it makes the car sound weak. The cranking sound is the same, but just goes for longer before starting up.

Good grief.
Technical forum requires accurate use of language to convey complex problems.
Yo dude, my car is "weak as" is not an accurate use of language.
Your car sounds fine, it just takes a little longer to crank than usual.

Originally Posted by ellusion

I will get the starter checked out. Your explanation does seem to explain why my engine has the problems depending on the period of time the car is parked for.

Now, if you read what Curtis has written you should notice that it is based around a loss of performance from your starter, based on your description of it being "weak".
Since we know now it actually turns over quite normally, it would indicate the problem is else where in the engine.

So, you need to answer the other question posed by Curtis:

"Did this happen suddenly, gradually, always happened"

If its the later don't worry about it.
If its either of the former, then some further investigation may be warranted, but i doubt it has much to do with the starter motor.