1993 Lumina leaking yellow ooze

[drrusk]

My son just received a 1993 Lumina from his grandparents. They purchased the vehicle new in 93 and of course, never had any trouble with it other than an issue with the steering wheel. They purchased and replaced the steering column before giving it to us on 12/8.

This vehicle was kept in a garage and driven very little over the past few years. There was no evidence of it having any leakage in their garage. We did notice the exhaust system was a bit loud--probably needing some muffler/exhaust work done.

The weekend we received it, we noticed several yellow spots in the driveway where it had been parked.

My husband thinks it may be a cracked head or something with seals etc. He says the yellow 'stuff' is a mixture -- not just one type of fluid leaking.

I am concerned about continuing to drive the car until we know what is going on--I am afraid that it may cause major damage to a minor problem should we continue to drive it.

So, I am looking for ideas/opinions as to what we should do/try. I am feeling like this 'gift' from grandma and grandpa is going to turn into a major headache for mom & dad.......
Thanks.

[maxwedge]

Welcome to AF, yellow fluid is usually p/s fluid, but realistically some one has to put this on a lift and track down the source.

[drrusk]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Welcome to AF, yellow fluid is usually p/s fluid, but realistically some one has to put this on a lift and track down the source.

Well, that would be a reasonable cause, as the entire steering column was replaced a few days prior to us receiving the car. Honestly, that sounds much better than cracked head and gasket problems!

[jeffcoslacker]

I have often commented on this syndrome...after working in a shop that catered to a lot of retired older people.

Grandson/daughter gets sweet low-mileage hand me down GM product, which promptly goes belly up in every way possible, costing the recipients a fortune in towing and repairs, until they finally give up, bite the bullet, repair the car to minimally driveable and sell at a loss just to be rid of it, or I end up hauling down to the boneyard on the back of the wrecker if they are particularly hard-headed.

Thus a whole new generation has their own horror stories about what flaming hunks of crap GM cars are, and it's not warrented, it just happens that old people and GM sedans go together like a lock and key, and so these are the ones you see this happening with....

Not trying to cast negativity on your deal, but your sneaking suspicion was probably correct. Trust your gut. I'd use it as a trade-in/down payment on something he REALLY wants....

[drrusk]

This car has nearly 200,000 miles on it--so it has definately has held up well considering it has been driven since 1993.

We got it up on a hoist this PM and the concensus was that the seals are going bad--no sign of any yellow stuff--just wetness........sounds like seals will run upwards of $100 and the labor will be a couple hundred bucks.......SO, is this the beginning of a money pit, or what?! I am already beginning to feel disgusted just paying for the title and the license plates! UGH Merry Christmas

[maxwedge]

Um, what seals?

[drrusk]

Originally Posted by maxwedge

Um, what seals?

I am pretty sure they said the rear seal or master seal...It was wet on the backside and bottom. They pressurized the cooling system to try to get it to leak.

Also found a hole in the exhaust pipe right near the muffler......ugh

I figured I would let my husband get the specifics on it--I just focused on the $200-$300 probable cost they were talking about. It should be noted that this is the local service station--still full service-- that does not do that big of a repair job...and they didn't charge me a dime for taking a good long look at it--small town living at its best

[Blue Bowtie]

The Slacker may be onto something. Different driver - Different driving habits. I've also seen the syndrome. The previous owners likely started and warmed the engine a bit before driving it. They didn't drive it hard or fast untill it was at full normal temperature. That's they way they were taught, and their years of experience proved them right. The new driver dives in, hits the key, and has it backing up before the key even has a chance to spring back to the RUN position. That's the way they are taught, or more appropriately, the way they have learned. There is no such thing as warm-up, so the main seals suffer, the head and intake gaskets suffer, the bearings and piston skirts suffer, and before you get 2,000 more miles on it it will be leaking every conceivable fluid from every possible joint, seam, and seal imaginable.

There's a very good chance that under control of the previous owners, the engine rarely, if ever, saw RPM above 3,000. There is an equal chance that it now will rarely see anything under 3,000 except when the key is off. That tends to splash more oil, pump more coolant, flow more transmission fluid, and stress seals, gasketed joints, and bearings more than ever before, as well as get components hotter than they have been in the past.

It's good to hear that the cooling system is still intact. If the engine has not had head/intake gasket leaks by now, it probably never will. If it has, and has been repaired properly, you should be all set in that regard.

The leak in the exhaust is completely understandable. The car is approaching a quarter-million miles and 15 years of use through hot summers and salty winters. The exhaust system has served its useful life and then some. Having to replace it should be expected. Given the mileage of the vehicle, there are a lot of things which might need attention. Don't be too surprised if the struts, brakes, water pump, alternator, and other wear items start to show their age. That's completely normal.

Your description sounds like the analysis is for a leaking rear main oil seal. The 1993 3.1 V6 used a one-piece elastomer rear main seal - A lip-type seal instead of the older packing type seal assembly. These are a lot more reliable, but can harden, suffer from dirt and sludge accumulation, and eventually fail to seal under heavier use. If it did not apparently leak before, there is a chance that it can be "fixed" without replacement. Most engine oils have a minimal amount of seal conditioning additive if any. Group IV synthetic crankcase lubricants (a.k.a., PAO synthetics or "True synthetics") have inherent seal conditioning ability due to their olefin base, and additional conditioner additives to make sure the seals stay pliable. Over time, the use of true synthetic lubricant can soften and clean seals to restore them. Unfortunately, in the interim, while they are cleaning away the 200,000 miles worth of sludge accumulation, they will expose more leakage before the seals are again made pliable. Eventually, they should stop leaking unless the seals are mechanically damaged (torn). The last higher mileage engine I had was only 188K old, but was as dry as popcorn on the underside after 12 years of daily use. All 188,000 miles were on synthetic.

The Lumina I acquired for my daughter to drive had a small timing cover seal leak when I got it. Four months and less than 3,500 miles later, the bottom side is clean and dry after changing to Mobil 1. Your results may vary, but you can find more anecdotal evidence of this if you search the WWW.

Incidentally, this is NOT the case for Group III "synthetic" such as Castrol "Syntec®", Pennzoil "Synthetic with PENNZANE®", Quaker State equivalent, Shell "Synthetic", or anything which is not a PAO base stock. Even the "Group V" synthetics, which are truly synthetic, are a bit suspect since they are ester-based products rather than olefin-based. Tribologists concluded many years ago that for crankcase lubricants PAO outperforms POE, and that for gearcase and other "clean" applications POE may be the better selection.

[drrusk]

Thanks for all the information.

Now we really just need to figure out if this vehicle is worth fixing, or if we should just cut bait and run.

Considering we know 100% of the history of this car I lean a bit toward repairing it and keeping it running. The body is in good condition and the interior is fine as well.

I know it will be a strain on the finances, but buying something else in our 'affordable' price range would just put us into another vehicle with the potential for just as many problems and without us know how the vehicle has been treated over the years. At least with this one, we know what has/hasn't been done over the years and what problems it has had.

At this point, all we have invested is the cost of title transfer and plates--would we really be going the wrong direction investing more into it?

Other thoughts/opinions?

[drrusk]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

It's good to hear that the cooling system is still intact. If the engine has not had head/intake gasket leaks by now, it probably never will. If it has, and has been repaired properly, you should be all set in that regard.

Talked with my dad--previous owner--he said that it always has leaked 'a little' oil--kept a piece of cardboard under it so it wouldn't stain the garage floor.......

SO, it does have an oil leak and evidently is leaking coolant somewhere as well, as my husband called me to pick up antifreeze on my way home tonight saying the reservoir had coolant, but he couldn't see any fluid in the radiator.....fun fun fun

[gw84]

I'd say repair and keep it. Although it has a lot of miles, you know that they were "easy" miles. As Blue Bowtie stated, you will probably find that there are several components which may require servicing. However, once repaired/replaced, you should be good to go for several years/miles. My first lumina was a '93 (3.1), we got it for $2100 in 2002 with 105,000 miles on it. Soon after we licenced it, it drove horribly....it barely stayed started and blew LOTS of black smoke. Had lots of work done to it. Apparently it still had the original spark plugs! In the 4+ years I've driven it, I've put 83,000+ miles on it with VERY FEW problems. I change the oil every 3,000 miles...or whenever I get bored and I don't drive it very hard. The only other issues I've had were oil and tranny leaks and just wore out components. I've replaced struts, tires, brakes (pads, rotors, calipers), lightbulbs, muffler, catalytic converter, battery (once), turn signal switch, power window switches, and that's really about it. Most of these are to be expected, especially on a vehicle with nearly 200,000 miles! All we knew when we bought this vehicle was that it had 2 previous owners. However, it's proven to be a great investment; so much in fact that when I purchased my '99 lumina LTZ, I decided to keep the '93. Basically with all this, what I'm trying to say is that because you know its history I would definately keep it! Again, you will have to replace some parts, but remember everything is made to wear out eventually and with 200,000 miles it's probably due for struts, brakes, alternator, etc....as Blue Bowtie said. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[Blue Bowtie]

The radiator may be a bit low since some of the coolant may have been lost or drained when the pressure test was performed. Top off the radiator cold. Make sure the radiator cap is clean and the suction valve on the cap is operating. Verify the hose between the radiator and reservoir is intact and not clogged. Monitor the level regularly. If the cooling system has not been flushed in the last 3 years, it's due.

As for the oil leakage, monitor the oil level regularly. Apparently, it's been leaking for some time. You can repair it, try seal conditioners, or live with it. Since repair requires separating the engine from the transmission, I'd be certain that there are no other problems before proceeding with the repair. It would be a shame to pay a few hundred dollar in labor to replace a $15 seal and carrier only to discover in a few months that the transmission needs service and you get to do it all over again.

For what you paid for the vehicle, you can certainly afford to perform a few repairs and still be money ahead. They are generally decent, reliable, and reasonably safe vehicles, and as you acknowledge, anything else you would acquire would be a complete unknown. Plus, you'd get to send another check to Jesse White just for the priviledge of changing. At least there should not have been any extra tax involved in the relative-to-relative transfer.

Of course, the exhaust pipe is an easy call. It needs to be repaired or replaced eventually.

[drrusk]

Actually, we were still charged $15 tax.......kinda thought we shouldn't have been, but with the headaches we've had doing plates/titles before, I thought it a small price to pay!

[Blue Bowtie]

Gotta love Blowboyobiitch - Love him to death. Somebody should. That fifteen bucks should come in really handy when he's in the cell next to Ryan.

But enough of our troubles, what's the prognosis?

[gw84]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

Gotta love Blowboyobiitch - Love him to death. Somebody should. That fifteen bucks should come in really handy when he's in the cell next to Ryan.

But enough of our troubles, what's the prognosis?

Blue, what part of the great Land-o-Lincoln are you from? I only see "rural"....that could be anywhere! I'm rural too.....southern Illinois (near Carbondale)