Muslim clerics removed from flight

03cavPA · #1 12-03-2006, 08:10 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,233958,00.html

Quote:

US Airways manager Robby Taylor Davis told police three of the six imams had one-way only tickets and only one passenger checked luggage. He also said in the police report that most of the six requested seat-belt extensions typically used by obese people despite being thin.

Also, a passenger on the plane who speaks Arabic heard the group mention Saddam Hussein and criticize the United States' involvement in Iraq. The passenger, whose named was redacted from the police report, said he saw two of the men take seats in the front of the plane, two take seats in the middle, and two more in the back.

Minneapolis police, along with U.S. Federal Air Marshals, decided the collective behavior of the group was suspicious enough to detain the men and question them.

Guess what one of the first statements they made was ................

Yep, "We were discriminated against."

Look, on the face of it, they could certainly be quite innocent, but they had to be smart enough to understand how suspicious their behavior looked to the rest of the passengers and crew. If they weren't that smart, then shame on them. A little more sensitivity to the current environment would have gone a long way, but I wasn't there, so I don't know the entire story.

for balance, here's a link to the story from another news agency:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061121/...igion_imams_dc

Interesting contrast. I would think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. People scream because they may have been treated unfairly, but people would scream if something happened to the flight and this information came out later.

Damned if ya do, and damned if ya don't.

fredjacksonsan · #2 12-04-2006, 08:18 AM

Better safe than sorry.

I didn't like and can't agree with the second articles' quote: "Their humiliation is really a humiliation for the entire Muslim community," There is no humiliation in being pulled off a flight, and the humiliation can't possibly extend to every Muslim worldwide. STFU

I've been taken to the "little room" and searched, and it wasn't humiliating. It is security taking the measures necessary to make travel safe for people.

Yes, Islam is a peaceful religion. It's the fanatics that give it a bad name. But it's also the fanatics that have performed nearly every terrorist action for the last 20 years, and with that sort of track record, I think that racial profiling is a good idea.

YogsVR4 · #3 12-04-2006, 10:38 AM

These guys can just cry me a river.

03cavPA · #4 12-04-2006, 01:22 PM

Other stories since then have reported a lot of information that suggests these guys did this deliberately, to push the issue of security profiling of muslims. It has also been suggested they did this to test any weaknesses they might be able to find in monitoring activities and the flight crew's response.

They found out, and they got a lot of media attention and free ride on the PC waambulance. No surprise that many news organizations took a soft approach to some of the facts in the case, and others did not. These guys did a lot of suspicious things and they made the rest of the passengers nervous enough to lead some of them to contact the flight crew about them.

The 9/11 terrorists did more than hijack planes and fly them into buildings; they hijacked an entire religion and nothing will ever be the same. I agree, Fred; profiling is inevitable and it IS better safe than sorry.

That's life.

fredjacksonsan · #5 12-04-2006, 02:35 PM

Fuck 'em, especially if they did this on purpose to stir things up.

03cavPA · #6 12-04-2006, 05:00 PM

For whatever it's worth, this blog claims to have information from people involved in the incident. There are links in the story on the website that will download a passenger's letter and a copy of the police report filed for the incident.

http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/12/the_...amas_media.php

BrodyP · #7 12-05-2006, 08:46 AM

Reading this stuff gets me so aggrivated. I agree with everyone above.

03cavPA · #8 12-05-2006, 06:37 PM

Nah, it's best not to get too aggravated by it all. I just try to keep informed.

mellowboy · #9 12-07-2006, 09:09 AM

One of them is my teacher. His name is Sheikh Mahmood. I go to his Mosque here in Phoenix,Az. He explained the situation to us and the news got it all twisted up. First of all, this didn't happened in the plane. It happened in the boarding area. 3 of our Imams was praying but yet the news tells that all 6 of them were praying. Its complete bullshit and I am still angry to this day on how the media still twists the story even with witnesess present. Non whatsoever mentioned about Saddam Hussein. Whenever my father talks politics with our Sheikh, he closes his ears and say he doesn't want to get involved. He doesn't like to talk politics/conspiracy theories etc.. He strictly concentrates on religion and helping people. You guys seem to believe in every information that the news tell you. I was flipping through the channels at the same day that it happened. I caught the news and suprisingly I saw the Scholars on the program. My boy was asking me if I knew them and I told him yes. So the next Friday came up and our Scholars tells us what really happened. Never in his life he's been accused of anything ridiculous because of prayers? Like one of the witnesses said, "Would they take me out for saying the hail mary out loud?" As I was watching the witnessess giving out there opinions, it seems like the younger ppl are more open minded than the senior citizens.

fredjacksonsan · #10 12-07-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellowboy

One of them is my teacher. His name is Sheikh Mahmood. I go to his Mosque here in Phoenix,Az. He explained the situation to us and the news got it all twisted up. First of all, this didn't happened in the plane. It happened in the boarding area. 3 of our Imams was praying but yet the news tells that all 6 of them were praying. Its complete bullshit and I am still angry to this day on how the media still twists the story even with witnesess present. Non whatsoever mentioned about Saddam Hussein. Whenever my father talks politics with our Sheikh, he closes his ears and say he doesn't want to get involved. He doesn't like to talk politics/conspiracy theories etc.. He strictly concentrates on religion and helping people. You guys seem to believe in every information that the news tell you. I was flipping through the channels at the same day that it happened. I caught the news and suprisingly I saw the Scholars on the program. My boy was asking me if I knew them and I told him yes. So the next Friday came up and our Scholars tells us what really happened. Never in his life he's been accused of anything ridiculous because of prayers? Like one of the witnesses said, "Would they take me out for saying the hail mary out loud?" As I was watching the witnessess giving out there opinions, it seems like the younger ppl are more open minded than the senior citizens.

I'm curious if you read the signed statements of the witnesses?

Are you saying that they are denying splitting up into 3 groups on the plane, and asking for seatbelt extensions?

I can understand you being upset because someone you know was detained; what story was told by your teacher?

mellowboy · #11 12-07-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

Are you saying that they are denying splitting up into 3 groups on the plane, and asking for seatbelt extensions?

Im not denying anything. Ok 3 of them are pretty hefty, whats wrong with asking for seat belt extensions? And about splitting up in the plane, I've traveled with my mother and brother and we never sat in the same row. Thats just ridiculous how ppl made it such a big deal about the Scholars not sitting together. If you travel with your family and friends, you would understand what I am talking about. If you would also understand how Muslim prayers work, you wont find a problem with what they're doing.

fredjacksonsan · #12 12-07-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mellowboy

Im not denying anything. Ok 3 of them are pretty hefty, whats wrong with asking for seat belt extensions? And about splitting up in the plane, I've traveled with my mother and brother and we never sat in the same row. Thats just ridiculous how ppl made it such a big deal about the Scholars not sitting together. If you travel with your family and friends, you would understand what I am talking about. If you would also understand how Muslim prayers work, you wont find a problem with what they're doing.

--First of all, what of my 2 other questions, which you thus far chose not to address? Also, you didn't answer the third question, so I'll post them again. You said YOU didn't deny anything, I asked if THEY did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

I'm curious if you read the signed statements of the witnesses?

Are you saying that they are denying splitting up into 3 groups on the plane, and asking for seatbelt extensions?

I can understand you being upset because someone you know was detained; what story was told by your teacher?

--Next, in "pretty hefty"...how hefty we talking? I've seen 300+ pounders use the seatbelts that are given, and once sat next to a pro football player that was 6'6" tall and weighed well over 350 who didn't need one.

--Next, you've traveled with your mother and brother and NEVER been in the same row? Perhaps once or twice, but never? I've travelled with people many times, and almost always been together, with one or two exceptions. But my question didn't pertain to your mother and brother and you, but rather the teachers, who asked to be widely separated. I HAVE traveled with family and friends, and almost always sat with or very close to them.

--Next, it's not ridiculous, after 9/11, to be worried that any group of people that are traveling together ask to be sprinkled all over the cabin in the same manner as the 9/11 terrorists. Most groups WANT to be together, or at least in closer proximity than front, middle, and back. You yourself intimated that your family would have sat together if possible.

--Lastly for now, I have absolutely no problem with anyone praying in the manner of their choosing.

So now, if you would, please answer my queries. I don't want teachings, I don't want rhetoric. For once, I'd like some straight answers from you so we can discuss the subject. And keep in mind this is NOT a religious issue to me, but rather one of safety. I'd feel the same if the people taken off the plane had been any affiliation and acted suspiciously.

mellowboy · #13 12-07-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

--First of all, what of my 2 other questions, which you thus far chose not to address? Also, you didn't answer the third question, so I'll post them again. You said YOU didn't deny anything, I asked if THEY did.

I apologise. I misread it. He wasn't in denial, I do believe as many others in our community and ppl that lives in the same neighborhood in the mosque believe his side of the story. The way how the news described him or the Scholars didn't fit there character. He didn't speak to the news cast. It was Omar Shahin who spoke. I have never spoken to Omar Shahin, I remember seeing him a couple of times but thats about it.

Quote:

--Next, in "pretty hefty"...how hefty we talking? I've seen 300+ pounders use the seatbelts that are given, and once sat next to a pro football player that was 6'6" tall and weighed well over 350 who didn't need one.

If someone doesn't feel comfortable, dont they have the right to request service? I still dont see whats the big problem is.

Oh and about not sitting together, this happened to me numerous of times. Even when I requested to sit next to someone, the seat is taken. It happens.

fredjacksonsan · #14 12-07-2006, 11:08 AM

OK; fair enough.

Last time I'll bother you with these:

Originally Posted twice by fredjacksonsan
I'm curious if you read the signed statements of the witnesses?

I can understand you being upset because someone you know was detained; what story was told by your teacher?

tenguzero · #15 12-07-2006, 11:14 AM

I just find it funny that people are getting all bent out of shape over the fact that this whole thing is developing the way it has -- like they're SURPRISED or something? What makes this any different from the numerous occurances we've already seen? Regardless of whatever the media or these Imams or anyone else wants to babble on about, the situation remains the same: these guys are members of what is currently a highly profiled group, they got on a plane, they behaved oddly, and the situation was resolved. I'm as tired of hearing about all the phantom "terrorist" crap as the next person (between stupid TV shows attempting to capitalize on the craze, idiot talking heads and media outlets trying to analyze it, and ignorant scumbags trying to utilize it to their own ends it's all become rather sickening) but in the end these men were escorted off, questioned, and let go. there were no hangings, no false imprisonments, no trumped up charges -- just a group of security people behaving according to protocol. Undoubtedly, the current "protocol" is all kinds of F'd up, but the only ending cost to those affected was basically inconvenience. As long as vigilance is continual and level heads ultimately prevail, there's always room for some inconvenience.

If only all the entities involved in current global conflicts behaved this way, there would be a lot less illegal detainment, violent discrimination, blown-up civilians, and barbaric executions.

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