timing belt cover

[lvavenger]

i've got a 98' 2.0L avenger. i'm in the process of replacing the timing belt and head gasket. how in the hell do you remove the three bolts that hold the plastic and metal piece that covers the timing belt??!?! the bolts are like 6-7 inches long, and it hits the engine bay wall before it can be removed. i'm guessing the engine has to be dropped or raised completely. is this correct?? it's driving me

[growe58]

Originally Posted by lvavenger

i've got a 98' 2.0L avenger. i'm in the process of replacing the timing belt and head gasket. how in the hell do you remove the three bolts that hold the plastic and metal piece that covers the timing belt??!?! the bolts are like 6-7 inches long, and it hits the engine bay wall before it can be removed. i'm guessing the engine has to be dropped or raised completely. is this correct?? it's driving me

Don't you love it? I bet that the Dodge engineer that designed this changed his name and moved out of the country because there are a LOT of Avenger owners looking for him. And it's not to buy him a beer.

You are correct; you need to raise the engine. If you're lucky enough to have a hoist, it's not too bad, but a jack and a block of wood under the oil pan will work as well. It helps to unbolt the front engine mount as well (which only takes a couple of minutes). This will allow you to lift the engine enough to clear the TWO front bolts for withdrawal.

The third bolt towards the back is the worst. There's a couple of things you can do. One is to jack the engine high enough, but this is very difficult and may require removing all the engine mounts. (It also puts a strain on some vacuum lines and the throttle cable so you may need to remove them first as well.) The second is to remove the little plastic plug in the fenderwell and maneuver the engine around until the bolt can be withdrawn through it. The third is to carefully cut or drill your own hole in the fenderwell and withdraw the bolt through that. If you do this, be careful of the various pipes (I beleive that they are for the purge system) that might be in the way.

I've done this job a couple of times and ended up cutting a small hole in the fenderwell. Some people think that its a really bad idea to cut into the car like that, but it made the job so much easier I haven't regretted it. YMMV.

Have fun!

[lvavenger]

thanks for the response. i was afraid of that. i think i'm going the "drill a hole" method.

is there any other other "show stoppers" i should be aware of?? what other recommendations do you suggest since i'll be replacing the timing belt??
btw, does anyone know where that dodge engineer lives???

[growe58]

It’s pretty straight forward after that. The only thing that I can think of is that the crank pulley is a press on and in rare occasions will refuse to come off with a puller and needs to be cut off. Hopefully (and most likely) that won’t happen to you.

If you’re re-using the head bolts, then you don’t have to remove the camshafts, although it can be difficult to re-thread the head bolts with the camshafts in place so you might end up removing them later anyway. If so, it’s really easy to strip the bolts for the cam bearing caps (ask me how I know) so be very careful.

While it won’t be an issue for you since you are doing both the timing belt and cylinder head, you might want to cut the rear plastic cover for the timing belt in half. This would make any future head removal easier. Completely optional.

You may also want to replace the water pump and timing belt tensioner while you’re in there; if either one later seizes, bye, bye valves. At least, you would have to open everything up again if you catch the failure early. Also, depending on your budget and tolerance for going back in at a later date, the various oil seals could be replaced as well at this time although if you don’t worse case is just an oil leak. When you button it back up, double check that the cam oil seal hasn’t fallen out of place.

Finally always be mindful that this is an interference engine and take care accordingly about valve versus piston position.

That’s all I can think of…

[lvavenger]

Originally Posted by growe58

It’s pretty straight forward after that. The only thing that I can think of is that the crank pulley is a press on and in rare occasions will refuse to come off with a puller and needs to be cut off. Hopefully (and most likely) that won’t happen to you.

If you’re re-using the head bolts, then you don’t have to remove the camshafts, although it can be difficult to re-thread the head bolts with the camshafts in place so you might end up removing them later anyway. If so, it’s really easy to strip the bolts for the cam bearing caps (ask me how I know) so be very careful.

While it won’t be an issue for you since you are doing both the timing belt and cylinder head, you might want to cut the rear plastic cover for the timing belt in half. This would make any future head removal easier. Completely optional.

You may also want to replace the water pump and timing belt tensioner while you’re in there; if either one later seizes, bye, bye valves. At least, you would have to open everything up again if you catch the failure early. Also, depending on your budget and tolerance for going back in at a later date, the various oil seals could be replaced as well at this time although if you don’t worse case is just an oil leak. When you button it back up, double check that the cam oil seal hasn’t fallen out of place.

Finally always be mindful that this is an interference engine and take care accordingly about valve versus piston position.

That’s all I can think of…

since the crank pulley is a pull off and was a bitch to take out. can i just use a mallet to pound the thing back in?? or would i need some kind of pusher tool?? also, after the timing belt is removed, what did you use to keep the cam gear from spinning when loosening the bolt that holds it?? it sucks that it's impossible to mess with TDC while loosening the bolt.

thanks, i appreciate all your info.

[growe58]

Originally Posted by lvavenger

since the crank pulley is a pull off and was a bitch to take out. can i just use a mallet to pound the thing back in?? or would i need some kind of pusher tool?? also, after the timing belt is removed, what did you use to keep the cam gear from spinning when loosening the bolt that holds it?? it sucks that it's impossible to mess with TDC while loosening the bolt.

thanks, i appreciate all your info.

I pounded my crank pulley back on and also used an electric impact gun to pull it on with the bolt. I have no idea if that's the correct way but it worked. A copper faced mallet would probably be the better way to go than the large hammer I used since the the pulley got pretty banged up. Make sure that when it first starts on that it's perfectly straight.

I held the cams with a pipe wrench or vice grips on the one spot where there's no lobes or bearing surfaces. Alternatively you may be able to hold the gears from turning with an oil filter wrench or wedge a screw driver between the two cam gears. (I think that they make a special tool for this, but I don't have it.)

Good luck!

[lvavenger]

okay, i finished up yesterday, started the car, and the problem has worsened. the water and oil are mixing up together worser than before, 10 fold. we did everything to specs. i used that spray copper gasket on the new multi layer steel head gasket i got from the dodge dealership. can't figure out where the problem is. so looks like i have to do it all over again.

any ideas??

[toverbo]

Would like to know what seals you suggest to inspect / or replace?

[lvavenger]

Originally Posted by toverbo

Would like to know what seals you suggest to inspect / or replace?

water pump seal, cam sensor seal, valve cover gasket, intake manifold gaskets, exhaust gasket, cam sprocket seals. that's all i can think of.

[toverbo]

thanks for the additional info.... appreciated.

[95_dodge_avenger]

Originally Posted by lvavenger

thanks for the response. i was afraid of that. i think i'm going the "drill a hole" method.

is there any other other "show stoppers" i should be aware of?? what other recommendations do you suggest since i'll be replacing the timing belt??
btw, does anyone know where that dodge engineer lives???

no, sry, but im lookin for him too, its not to buy him a beer either, but the head might be warped