Evo vs. STi

[Steiner]

This is a bit of a long read but you won't be dissapointed...

After beating my buddy's modded E46 M3 pretty handily, I've been waiting to have some fun with a modded STi for a while now. Well it finally happened about an hour ago on my way back from the grocery store. Which, by the way, is absolute hell on the eve of Thanksgiving if you're thinking about picking up some last minute things.

It was an '06 STi (err should I say "STI" now). I could tell by the Alfa Romeo-ish horse collar on the front grill. The scoobie was white and so was the driver. Probably mid to late 20's. It was definately modified. I could hear that boxer rumble from almost a block back as I made my way through traffic to catch up. I was driving pretty conservatively, not wanting to tip my hand. It's hard to do with a test pipe. When I got behind him at a stop sign I saw him look in the rear view. When it was his turn he took off like crazy. My Evo owning ass has no problem admitting that it was an awesome assortment of sights, sounds and smells to behold. That thing scooted to the chorus of some nasty mean sounding engine snarls. I also saw a huge spark come out of the tail pipe when he shifted to 2nd. At that point I knew he would be down for a little run. The consequences for running catless in CA are severe, so you have to be a little nuts to do it for 8-10whp.

When I pulled up next to him he was all smiles. He said he loved Evos and I quickly said likewise about the STi. I said we should find somewhere to run. He agreed but he beat me to the punch on the mods though...

HIM: "You cammed?"
ME: "Yeah...cammed and tuned with an Evo IX turbo"
HIM: "Oh shit...this might actually be close then. I'm running Accessport stage 2 with a protune"
ME: "What kind of numbers did you put down after the tune"
HIM: "Almost 330whp...what about you?"
ME: "About 290whp. Are you running a high octane map?"
HIM: "Nope...my maps are all for pump"

He said to follow him and off we went. Immediately he's on the cell phone calling God knows who. I was worried he was trying to gather an audience. I don't mind losing in front of a few people but nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. And nothing attracts snitches and cops like a crowd. Fortunately when we pulled up to this little frontage road nobody was there. It stayed that way...thank God.

The dude was cool and all but initially he was really cocky. He wanted to do the first run from a dig but kept asking me sorta condascendingly if my clutch was OK because he had "heard all about" Evo clutches. I told him I've got 35k miles on the stocker. Let's do it. I wanted to ask him if his ECU woke up on the wrong or right side of the bed because I'd "heard all about" how they have their PMS days...but I bit my tongue.

The road we were on is basically a frontage road dividing the freeway and miles of undeveloped land, so nobody was gonna sneak up on us or get in our way. The first run was from a stop. He counted down...honk...honk..honk. He rushed the 3rd honk and sorta caught me off gaurd. I bogged the launch real bad and he was off. I let up and right away he hit the brakes and came back. Before I said anything he apologized for jumping the 3rd honk. He said he was more worried about getting, and keeping, 2 hands on the steering wheel. LOL. The next time was better. I got the revs and the boost up and put a car length on him out of the hole. He paced me until about 70mph and then I began pulling through 3rd and into 4th before I shut down at about 110mph with a 3+ CL advantage. To the smell of burning clutch, we agreed to do one more from a stand still. He asked me to honk down this time. I didn't bog the launch, but I got out of the gates a little later and a little slower than he did. Through 1st gear my ear was right in his tailpipe but by the top of 2nd I'd pulled even and, just as before, once I shifted to 3rd that same gradual pull took over. I think he was a little frustrated because he went all the way to 130mph+ before finally letting off. I had that bad launch but I kept the same 3+ CL margin of victory because of how far we went. We pulled back to "the staging area" and he said he needed a smoke with a dejected look. With his turbo timer on he jumped out of the car shaking his head. I let my car idle for a few minutes and then I jumped out and we talked. He became pretty gracious which was cool. He outright said "your Evo pulls harder down low and MUCH harder up top". Then he wanted to know how he lost to a car with 40whp less than him so we talked about dynos for a few minutes. I think we both learned something tonight. Then my cell phone barked at me. My wife wanted to know where her dried terragon was. That was my night. Back to reality. Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Three...count em 3...football games on tomorrow!

[-The Stig-]

haha... nice one.

Happy T-day.

[Mad_Maxima]

HAHAHAH, that was appointing( wtf is the non negative of disappointing )

that was a pretty badass race, two of my favorite 4 doors going at it




happy thanksgiving everyone, dont get stuffed too much, gotta go shopping on friday.

[Igovert500]

Very nice! Definately was not disappointed. Congrats on a nice kill.

[Musashi3000GT]

Originally Posted by Steiner

Then he wanted to know how he lost to a car with 40whp less than him so we talked about dynos for a few minutes.

Same way I loose to them.
Thier Evos!
have you taken it to the track yet? it sounds like you tuned her damn right.

[Right_LiRrr]

wow nice race. That woulda been some classic fun.

The dyno figures must be pretty off. I can't wait to see what ur car runs on the 1/4!

[Steiner]

I haven't taken it to the track yet. It wasn't supposed to be my daily driver this long. I was about to pull the trigger on a Honda Fit then I accepted a job with less driving so I'm sorta in limbo right now. After the first of the year I may pick up an FX35 for my wife and just carpool to work.

The dyno thing is sorta funny. Here in NorCal, for some reason, most of the Evo tuners run extremely conservative Mustang dynos. Whereas most '05 Evos put down between 240whp and 250whp on a Dynojet, around here the stockers usually end up between 215whp and 225whp on a Mustang. Just to give you a frame of reference, nobody cracks 300whp on the EIP or Gruppe-S dyno unless they're running race gas or a big turbo. My 290whp/300wtq would probably be more like 330whp/350wtq on the same dyno the STi guy used for tuning. He said it was somewhere in Vegas. Can't remember the shop. When people fall in love with dyno numbers it can be hazardous to your health. It's a tool meant for measuring increases/decreases in performance. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[freakray]

I've got a friend with stage 2 on his STI and some of the things you say don't make any sense, in fact I tempted to believe the guy was more a poser than anything.

If he was running a turbo timer, he's not running the factory turbo which means he's actually stage 3.
Also, stage 2 with a pro-tune should be in the 360hp range. Stage 1 gets you into the 330hp range.

So, either you're making some things up to give yourself some extra cred or the guy was full of shit and led you a story.

I don't doubt you could beat him, but I know enough about modding Subies to know that if he had the mods you're claiming, it should have been a lot more than a little close.

[2000LS1Z28]

Wow good kill. Those modified STI's are no joke. I've heard, and seen, that STI's are better to get outta the hole. I believe it's due to their larger engine, and better clutch. Saw some dude cutting 1.6 sec. 60' times in his mildly modified STi. They tend to fall on their face up top for some reason though.

Anyways, happy you had fun.

[VR43000GT]

Nice races.

The numbers just don't jive on those EVO's. They are faster than what you would think they were by just looking at their numbers on paper.

[eps]

Originally Posted by freakray

I've got a friend with stage 2 on his STI and some of the things you say don't make any sense, in fact I tempted to believe the guy was more a poser than anything.

If he was running a turbo timer, he's not running the factory turbo which means he's actually stage 3.
Also, stage 2 with a pro-tune should be in the 360hp range. Stage 1 gets you into the 330hp range.

So, either you're making some things up to give yourself some extra cred or the guy was full of shit and led you a story.

I don't doubt you could beat him, but I know enough about modding Subies to know that if he had the mods you're claiming, it should have been a lot more than a little close.

Why would he not be able to have a turbo timer with the stock turbo?

All a turbo timer does is hook up to the ignition and keep the car running when you take the keys out.

[Right_LiRrr]

Originally Posted by eps

Why would he not be able to have a turbo timer with the stock turbo?

All a turbo timer does is hook up to the ignition and keep the car running when you take the keys out.

having a turbo timer on a subie is like giving a fat kid another cake - sure he'd enjoy it, but it doesn't help in any way

basically, the stock turbo on all subies cools itself fine without the need for a turbo timer. around subie circles, turbo timer=rice cos no need for them unless u go aftermarket turbo...and even then it depends which one.

but yes steiner, totally agreew with you about ppl falling in love with their dyno numbers....but sometimes the numbers are just so cool

[freakray]

Originally Posted by eps

Why would he not be able to have a turbo timer with the stock turbo?

All a turbo timer does is hook up to the ignition and keep the car running when you take the keys out.

The stock turbo in all Subaru vehicles is watercooled, this helps maintain a stable temperature in the turbo at all times, even when spirited driving.

The whole point of a turbo timer is to keep the car running at low revs to allow the turbo time to cool off in a stable manner. If you drive the car hard and simply turn off the engine, the turbo can cool unevenly and being a casting, it can result in cracks in the housing. A water cooled turbo cools off at a more stable rate than a non-cooled turbo due to the fact that the water, due to temperature variations throughout the cooling system, will continue to flow through the turbo for an extended time and ensure a gradual and controlled cool off.

Subaru actually warn against adding a turbo timer to the stock turbo as it's a purely redundant system on a water cooled turbo.

Further to RL's comment about only needing a turbo timer on aftermarket turbos on a Subaru, not even all after market turbo's need a timer as not all of them are non-cooled. In fact, there are plenty of water cooled after market turbos on the market that will bolt up to the Impreza.
Many after market tuning houses that specialise in Imprezas are even recommending the water cooled systems since the car is already set up for it.

Believe it or not, Subaru even issued a bulletin about the matter:
http://www.subaruwest.com/PDF_files/...1_techtips.pdf

[Right_LiRrr]

Originally Posted by freakray

Further to RL's comment about only needing a turbo timer on aftermarket turbos on a Subaru, not even all after market turbo's need a timer as not all of them are non-cooled.

Hey Ray:

Originally Posted by Right_LiRrr

no need for them unless u go aftermarket turbo...and even then it depends which one

[freakray]

Originally Posted by Right_LiRrr

Hey Ray:

After I reread both I posts I realised you had said that

There's no argument though, if two Scooby folk from the opposite side of the world say the same thing, it must be true