92 3.8 Won't Start

[Kristamarie]

Was having problems last week with rough idle and then high idle. Replaced the MAF sensor and IAC. She was running fine for three days, except for a couple of hick-ups (rare) while driving.

Parked it last night and this morning it won't start. It is still cranking, but will not start. No engine codes.

What should I check?

[LMP]

THIs sounds like a classic crank sensor gone haywire....and may be that was showing with your last trouble in former thread.
CHeck for spark in the first place. If no spark, this is quite indiative of the nature of problem: either crank sensor or ignition module (under the coils).
Of course, replacment of ignition module is done easily...
replacement of crank sensor requires more because need pulling the crank balancer/pulley....
If you have spark, then you will have to check for pulses on the injectors, which also depends on the crank sensor and ignition module. DO you hear the 1 sec burst of the fuel pump at KEY ON?

[Kristamarie]

Just went out for the codes and after reading codes, it started. I am guessing it is still the 31 code. Even though now I have 17 also.

Where is the Neutral switch mounted? How do I know if I have a 3 or 4 speed, overdrive considered a gear?

I saw where the Crank sensor is mounted (another post), not looking forward to pulling it. May not have all the tools for that either. How do I test it?

I tried to pull up your links at www.avigex.ca/xport/, but got a HTTP Error 403 - Forbidden. I sent you an e-mail about that.

I also wanted to thank you for taking time to post to this website, and letting us pick your brain. I am not an expert and with your help I am learning new things.

[Kristamarie]

I thought I heard the fuel pump, but it could have been all the relays from checking the codes before I started it. I am going back out to check.

[Kristamarie]

Started right up again and running fine. No CEL.

When I need it, it won't start, and when I don't it starts.

[LMP]

www.avigex.ca/xport/dtc31.jpg
to see file list: www.avigex.ca/xport/index.txt
Notice dtc31 will not impair engine start.
With the 3.8 you have a 4 speed (1,2,D,OD) plus TCC that applies on 3 and 4

[red88gt]

Gotta agree that it sounds like the crank sensor. I've found that intermittent starting is almost always the crank sensor. My '95 played this game for a long time before I bit the bullet & changed the sensor. It would start fine 20 times in a row & then out of the blue just crank & crank & crank. If you came back 10 minutes later, it fired right up. Then it would start fine twenty times or one time & then do the same thing. I changed the sensor & haven't had a problem in months.

[Viala]

Thank you LMP for your page with all the links

Paul

[Kristamarie]

Will the crank sensor also give you a stall symptom?

My van started and ran fine all week until halfway home on Thanksgiving. I was at a red light everything was sounding fine, and it just shut off. No rough idle, no sputter, just off.

My husband pushed us home and when we got it into the driveway it started right up.

[LMP]

This is a symptom that is part of the crank sensor syndrome. THis component exhibits a heat sensitive behaviour..so that it would start OK from cold, but then stop 5 minutes later....and most often if you happen to stop at the food shop..then during that time it receives no windstream and heats up more of heat conduction from the engine..and would not start after that, or simply stall if engine is kept running..like at a traffic light.
SO this is not absolute, but very indicative of Crank sensor problem.
www.avigex.ca/xport/ckpphoto.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/ckps.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/ckpsremoval.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/ckpulley.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/cksphoto.jpg

[Kristamarie]

LMP-Thank you for all of your input and letting me pick your brain, I appreciate it!!!

The IAC I got was from a salvage yard. Couldn't the IAC give me the stalling symptoms too? Can I check the IAC by unplugging it and starting the car to see if I get any symptoms?

When I checked the CEL codes the first time I had problems, it gave me a 31, which is another word for the neutral safety switch. Could the neutral safety switch also cause the stalling I am experiencing? I haven't replaced it yet, because the van has been starting. When it goes bad I didn't think it would be intermittent starting, just all or nothing, right?

I am getting a mechanic that will install the Crank Sensor, labor and parts for $100 US. Just thinking I might want to check out everything else before I take it in.

Thanks for you help,
Krista

[LMP]

$100 parts and labour is OK....
code 31 has no relevance with your problems and yes, if the neutral switch was seriously off position or nor functional, it would not start.
The IAC resets at KEY ON....so unplugging it before start is no good idea. I'm quite convinced the crank sensor will clear your problem....if not, it is an overdue maintenance item at that age. I'd be worried to start a trip far away from home with a 15 y.o. crank sensor....can fail at any moment...so it is a good investment in any case. By the way, I changed mine " by mistake" last spring...the problem was with the ignition module...but when I went on a 2400 km trip two months later, I was really glad I had it.

[Kristamarie]

Got the Crank sensor replaced last Wednesday and have been driving it all week and not a single problem with stalling or starting. so.......THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH!!!

Only one condition still remains. The high idle. When starting cold it idles to about 1100, then when it warms up and I am in park or neutral it will continue to rise to about 1600 or 1700. If I put it in gear it goes back to about 1100. As long as there is a load on the engine, it will stay there. Heaven forbid I put it in park or neutral again, it goes to about 1800. So I have been shutting it off in gear and then I put it in park.

Any ideas?

[LMP]

High idle is definitely an IAC problem....either damaged connecetor, blockage...this has to be investigated but this is the area of concern...you said you replaced your original with a salvage unit....can you swap it back? Also a low temperature reading can keep the IAC to the "cold" setting...check for temp sensors to be correctly connected and there are two temp sensors: one for the indicator (on wire) , one for the computer (2 wires). A disconnnected temp sensor is read as a low temperature.

[Kristamarie]

Where are the temperature sensors located? One by the thermostat and one on the block? Do you you have a link for more info? I can easily check those

I will clean and reset to 28 mil the IAC, and see what happens also.

Thanks again