Engine noise, possible idler pully serp belt?

[boconnell]

Today on the drive home for lunch I was hearing a weird noise. When I got home I popped the hood and it looked like the idler pulley was moving a little in and out instead of just spinning. I'm guessing I need to replace the serpintine belt as I bought my 1997 Jeep Cherokee country with the 4.0 I6 engine when it had 60k and it now has 124k miles and the belt is looking a little worn on the underside. My question is should I also change the idler pulley or anything else along with it? When I stepped on the gas to show my wife she said she saw sparks, she jumped out of the way with a look of terror on her face, actually it was pretty funny watching her run from the Jeep. I can't confirm if it did spark or not as I saw no sparks when she hit the gas for me. I don't want to buy the belt and then get stranded b/c I didn't change the idler pulley, or power steering pulley when I did the belt. Also do I need to make sure the pulleys don't rotate as I take off the belt or is it ok if they move when the belt is removed? From past posts on this topic it looks like you just need to make sure you have the pulleys turning the right way. Also do I just loosen the tensioner bolts on the power steering pulley to remove the belt and just mark where they were before I loosened them? I have the Haynes manual and the diagram for it just wanted to talk to someone who's done it previously.

[AlohaBra]

I have done it...many times...replace the whole pulley if you can get it....it is about $15 or just the bearing.

(I have posted about this before on this forum...search for them...)

Take it out first...15mm wrench on the front hold down nut...then 15mm socket with a super long extension to detension. Make sure you have a belt diagram sticker still,...otherwise draw one.

I don't use tension gage, but a lot of folks do...I just make it tight and retighten a couple of days or a week later. Check it periodically every year...or 6 months or whenever you look under the hood.

Oh..welcome to the forum!

[boconnell]

When you say replace the whole pulley do you mean the idler pulley or the power steerin pulley? The reason I ask is because the power steering pulley is where you detension the belt according to the Haynes manual?

[AlohaBra]

The early model in 90s worked like that...

The 97 which is what mine is..has an idler pulley below the PS pump. Look under the hood...if the PS pulley is wobbling then you need to replace the pump.

[boconnell]

Ok I did the swap last night, man what a pain to get at the idler pulley, I had to remove the electric fan in front of it and torque the crap out of the bolt to break it loose, I used tri-flow lube on the bolt to help unstick it and that seemed to work. There is still a problem b/c after I replaced the idler pulley and serp belt I tightened up the tightener bolt then the idler pulley bolt and the belt was super tight but the same pulley I thought was the idler pulley previously was still wobbling and the belt was working its way off of it. I think from the process of deduction it's the water pump pulley. I'm worried as I don't think you can just replace that pulley, correct, you have to replace the whole water pump. I've never done that and I'm not sure if I can pull it off. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I can't afford to take this to a shop as we have two small boys and my wife stays home with them to avoid ridiculous child care costs. I priced the water pumps yesterday at pepboys and they're about $60 which is doable but I'm not sure about draining it and how much fluid will come out. I don't want to undo this thing thinking only a couple gallons is in there and then the whole system dumps out on the driveway. Please help, I'm feeling pretty anxious about this one.


Actually I found a previous post about this and they linked a page that is very helpful. http://jeepin.com/features/waterpump/page2.asp

I'm still not sure about the amount of coolant that will come out any idea?

[fredjacksonsan]

Water pump replacement is a relatively easy job; you may have to take out the radiator so you can get to it.

As far as fluid amounts, check your owner's manual for the cooling capacity; on my 2000 4.0 it's I think 16 quarts - 4 gallons. You should be fine with 2 new gallons of antifreeze. Just pour one of them in first, then refill with water & pour in. Repeat with second gallon - by pouring in the coolant first you'll make sure you have at least 50/50 in there.

[boconnell]

Can I use the pre-mixed 50/50 they sell at pepboys or do I have to use straight antifreeze and distilled water?

[fredjacksonsan]

Premix is fine, you'll just need 4 gallons. It's just that it's much cheaper to buy the unmixed at 9.99 a gallon even when buying a gallon of distilled water, then to get the premix for 7.99 (which has only 1/2 the coolant of the straight). Figured if you're cost conscious it might make a difference. The coolant will all get mixed in the engine in a few miles anyway.

One thing you may run into is having an air bubble in the system somewhere. You can solve this by having the front end about a foot higher than the back, to create a slope for the bubbles to travel upwards to the radiator. Let it run for about 1/2 hour after you refill, in order for the thermostat to cycle a few times, and keep the radiator filled.

[AlohaBra]

Ok...I just did the water pump also.

Like Fred said get 2 gallons of coolant and add water for a 50/50 mix. I just use tap water here in California.

Tips:
* First remove fan shroud on mechanical fan
* Fan removal..leave belt on and then remove clutch fan nuts first... or loosen them...use a larger screwdriver to keep pulley from turning..do all four
* remove electric fan...I left my radiator in place on my 97
* Use large wide tray to drain coolant...I use a large garage drain pan under that to keep garage clean
* coolant is toxic and will kill dogs
* drain coolant from lower radiator hose...drivers side of engine
* remove air cleaner assembly for access
* you can loosen but not remove the power steering pump for access (I forget if the pulley has to come off...probably not)..I think the bracket might though.....realign this part first when reassembling
* pour coolant in toilet not the street or take to a shop for recycle (toilet water gets treated...storm water goes into bays and rivers)
* the long metal heater pipe in back might give you a problem...put the whole thing in the vise and use a large wrench
* if you can't reuse the metal pipe go to the hardware store and get a NPT fitting with a nipple and make the rubber hose longer
* use a razor blade and puddy knife or whatever to scrape gasket
* I use a very very light coat of silicone with the new gasket
* I pull the temp sensor in the termostatic hosing when filling to rid the air in that section....just road test and recheck coolant periodically for a week

***If you think this is too much..see if an independent shop can do it...not the dealer

**** I just looked at the link you had..looks good except I don't remove the intake...(Edit..I think he meant intake hose or upper radiator hose). Other notes: I replaced my radiator cap but didn't replace my theromostat cause it was working fine and I didn't want to spend the $$$. But he is right it will be easier to scrape the gasket.

[boconnell]

That's a good idea, I'll get the regular and 2 gallons of distilled water. Question the thermostat I keep hearing about is there a proper name for it? Is it the water pump thermostat? Just wondering b/c on autozone.com there's a bunch of different thermostats listed. Thank you guys for all this wonderful help. I'm off Monday and I'll be tackling this thing head on.

[AlohaBra]

It is called the thermostat for the engine or just thermostat.

They come in different temperature ranges. But I would use the stock one because the fuel injection would run as designed. If your temp gage is at 210 F..it is running OK. The thermostat is rated at 195 F to open.

[boconnell]

To the point about the thermostat, it is working fine that's the weird thing, through all this the jeep never overheated or even went a little above normal eventhough the pulley was dancing around...lol...I guess I'll just leave it on then. I wrote my first post this morning having just got into work and was feeling a little scared about it but I know I can do it, if I could do the idler pulley and serpentine belt then I can do this. Honestly I think my biggest fear was not having a large enough container to catch the coolant...lol...how dumb is that. Anyway I'm going to pepboys tonight to get the stuff and I'll disassemble part of it but I'm looking to do it Monday as I have to work this weekend. Thank you guys again, you guys are awesome on here, thei site is excellent, it saved me $90 when someone helped me find the keypad manufacters code on our explorer, then another $350 in labor when I had to replace a broken window regulator in said ford. Now I'm guessing it's saving me another 200-300 in labor for this. I'm so thankful for this site and the help you've all provided. God bless you guys. Thanks again. Brian

[AlohaBra]

If you jack it up a little, you can use a Home Depot bucket at the lower radiator hose.

Get a new thermostat gasket and take it out even if you reuse the old T-stat...it will be easier to scrape the H2O pump gasket.

Plan on four hours...if you got all the tools...metric....
Have a spare car near by...in case you need something.

[boconnell]

Question how do you get the radiator plug out? I don't see any threads on it, do I just get some pliers and pull it out? I started taking things apart tonight to make the job easier tomorrow. I already pulled the serp belt, the idler pulley, took out the electric fan, the air box, and pried off the outer pulley on the old water pump, and sure enough the inner pulley is shot on the water pump.

[AlohaBra]

I don't bother with that.

I pull the lower radiator hose to drain the coolant.

But..your question...I think you have to remove the grille and use a wrench and attach a hose to aim it. You unscrew it with the wrench. I have never done it that way...I use the lower rad..hose...

Aloha...