How fast?

FREED0MFiST · #1 09-12-2002, 10:40 PM

Right now im wondering if i should mod my car, or just save up and buy a better car... like an rsx or wrx (something along those lines). Right now i have a 98 civic ex w/ aem cai and honda oe ground effects. So, right now there like a $15,000 difference between my car and any car i would consider buying instead. I'm thinking my car could be pretty quick for that much money... but what could i do? First, i dont really want to swap in an engine. Also, in like 2 years im off to college, so im guessing i'll need a somewhat reliable car. If i get a turbo am i going to have to fix it all the time? Also, am i going to be able to make my sohc vtec fast and still be a daily driver? How much does it cost to build my engine to run say 15 lbs of boost (when i race) w/ a turbo? And finally. how fast will i be if i get turbo w/ 15 lbs of boost, intercooler, exaust, and an engine build? Right now my car runs 17's (im in high altitude)... will this put me into 13's?

Tominos · #2 09-14-2002, 01:12 AM

i say just buy the wrx. no joke. if you don't swap engines its going to be pretty hard to get into thirteens without some major work and might not be as reliable as a factory turbocharged car, thats already got the internals for boost. plan on spending about 700 for rods and about 400 for pistons. then labor putting that in. 15,000 is alot of money though, and with that much you can get into thirteens. there is a d series board if you want to know what it takes to get a d series into the thirteens. with 15000, you could get into 12s. fully built d series with t3/t4 hybrid turbo, pushing 15+ psi on the streets.

FREED0MFiST · #3 09-14-2002, 01:17 PM

Do you have a swap in your 97 ex? I could do a swap... but would it fuck up my handeling and all that? And is it a pain in the ass trying to fit in a swap and a turbo/supercharger? I'd do a swap, but im afraid of totally fucking up my car just for some more speed. How hard is it to do? I see at honda motors online i can get a b16a complete changover for 2450, and a b18c for 3300, is it really EVERYTHING i need, besides mounts? Right now i don't know a whole lot about mechanics.... but i am in a full year of auto mechanics at my school so i'll have half a year of eletrical and half a year of powertrain.... i wouldnt try and do this unti next summer. If i can't do it myself, about how much might it cost to have someone else do it? and is it worth the extra $800 for the b18?

Tominos · #4 09-14-2002, 10:26 PM

no swap YET. i am going to have to swap pretty soon, because my engine is going out, something wrong with the head and i don't want to fix it, hope it doesn't go out too soon because of lack of funds for new motor. depending on what motor you get, only one that will cause massive understeer is the h22/h23 motors, due to the fact that they weigh about 200 lbs more than the motor thats in your car right now. it sounds like you are in the same spot as me. i've been in my automotive shop in school for 3 years, and am not taking the 4th year. as for installing the engine. as long as you get a helms manual and know somewhat about what you are doing, you can't go wrong. unless you can get it installed for 250 and don't have the tools to do it. when it comes time for my swap ill pay the 250 to my friend to swap because i dont' want to bust out all the tools, rent the lift, etc. etc. but if install was over 400, then i would definitely do it myself. think of what else you could get with that money you saved. on hondamotorsonline.com, they sell the complete changeover so it pretty much comes with everything you need to get it installed, even the mounts. as for choosing b16a2 for 2400 or b18c for 3300 i would choose the b16, because the difference in speed and power is very minimal and with the 900 extra you could easily go much faster than the b18c. 15.8 for si, and 15.2 for gsr 1/4 times.

FREED0MFiST · #5 09-14-2002, 10:41 PM

is 10.5 too high compression for running 8 lbs of boost?

Rice_destroyer · #6 09-15-2002, 12:33 AM

okay, first things first. if you're going to college, you better off fixing up your civic as to buying a new WRX or RSX. why you ask, because you won't be able to afford the insurance in the long run. my buddies got a WRX and he's married w/kids and has had no tickets what so ever and he still pays $300 a month for full coverage. now, with $15,000 that's a lot of money and with that much money you can make your car one phat ride! i didn't even spend that much money and i'm almost in the 12's! with minor suspension mods i'll be in the 12's easily. that or an LSD!

anyway to getting back to your questions. if you're gonna go for a full VTEC motor swap, get the B18c1(gsr) motor. in the long run you'll thank me because the B16 whether you like it or not, really is a weak motor. the only thing that is nice about the B16 is it's head and the fact that you can swap in CTR and ITR parts without too much hassle. the reason why it's a weak motor is due to it's small displacement it has basically no torque. the only reason why it's almost as fast as a B18c1 is because of it's super short gearings. without that, it wouldn't be running anywhere close to 15s. trust me i know. $900 isn't much when you're talking about speed. $900=cheap intake, cheap headers, and exhaust. that plus a b16 vs a gsr...the gsr will definately tear the b16 up. those cheap bolt ons will at most only add about 7whp if you're lucky. and what's 7whp when you don't even have torque to pull you there?

just a little story for you. when i had my B18B1 installed in my civic. all i had was a cheap intake and a PYR chip. some dude pulled up to me at a stoplight and waved his finger signaling me for a quick run. we took the risk and ran from that stop light to the next and i had beat him by almost a whole car length. we pulled over at a gas station and we exchanged info about our cars. turns out that he had a b16a with i/h/e and all i had was a cheap intake and a chip. so there you go...a little story for your reference.

Self · #7 09-15-2002, 03:28 AM

Maybe I'm wrong, so correct me if I am...The 15k difference between the cost of your car and buying a new WRX or RSX...That's not money you just have cash, right? I mean, you'd have to make payments on the new car, right? You wouldn't just hand them a wad of bills and drive away with no payments to ever make, correct? If so then all of the plans people are giving you aren't quite correct. Because it sounds like they're assuming you have the 15k in hard cash. Like "go spend $1000 on rods and pistons, $2k on a swap, and $4k on a turbo, and you'll be in the 13s". You'd have to do this all over time like most of us. It would be a slow slow process...In that case you're better off just buying the new car, that's what I would think anyways. And as far as insurance goes...If you mod your car and don't tell the insurance company about it so your payments don't go up, and you get into an accident or something else happens, you don't get money back for your mods...You only get the cash for what they know about, which would be a stock engine. So you're better off telling them about your mods and letting your payments go up so you're COVERED, that's the point of insurance. In which case, your payments for a modded car wouldn't be that much more than your payments for a new WRX or RSX...Just the way I see things...

FREED0MFiST · #8 09-15-2002, 04:35 AM

Yeah i would have to make some payments on it. What i would plan on doing is saving money for the next two years, selling my car, and trying to buy a new car... maybe making very small payments. But when i look at it, i could save up 5 grand and get a turbo kit, fuel system, and some tuning done, and i would definitly be able to beat a wrx or and rsx right? Has anyone heard about the f-max kit? they're saying like 225 horses with the turbo kit, 12 lbs of boost, aem cam gears, 3" exhaust, after-market ceramic clutch and apex'i avc-r boost controller and thats it. I would surely be able to run 14's with that, maybe 13's with slicks?

Rice_destroyer · #9 09-15-2002, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
Yeah i would have to make some payments on it. What i would plan on doing is saving money for the next two years, selling my car, and trying to buy a new car... maybe making very small payments. But when i look at it, i could save up 5 grand and get a turbo kit, fuel system, and some tuning done, and i would definitly be able to beat a wrx or and rsx right? Has anyone heard about the f-max kit? they're saying like 225 horses with the turbo kit, 12 lbs of boost, aem cam gears, 3" exhaust, after-market ceramic clutch and apex'i avc-r boost controller and thats it. I would surely be able to run 14's with that, maybe 13's with slicks?

the F-max kit is ok i guess. but i haven't seen too many people sport this kit. Drag on the other hand, everyone recommends. don't ask me why because i don't have one. but i guess since it comes with a T3/T4 which in my opinion will make more hp than your motor can handle and all the neccessary parts that you will need for higher boost. you could spend $3000+ on an already pieced out turbo kit or maybe...if you do a little research and learn a few things about a turbo kit, you can piece one together youself. i pieced mine together and total cost was only around $1500! there are alot of great deals out there you just have to look for them. especially with your SOHC motor there are tons of turbo parts that people are always getting rid of because they're switching over to DOHC motors. if you need the instructions on how to build a turbo kit, i'll gladly email them to you. i got them from a friend like a few years ago and it has really helped me learn a few things back then. and anther thing, it's wise of you to not a new car right now. Car payments=$300+ a month, with insurance payments=$300+ a month, gas=$50-$75 a month...plus maintaince and at the same time, trying to upgrade your car as well. man, it all adds up! and since you've got school, you don't really have that kind of money right?! well...anyway, good luck bro, and hope to see your car in the 14-13 sec. range.

FREED0MFiST · #10 09-16-2002, 12:33 PM

im pretty sure the fmax kit also comes w/ t3/t4 turbo. did you make your turbo for 1500 with new parts? yeah definitly mail those instructions, id much rather pick out everything i want than get overcharged for a kit. my email is [email protected]

Rice_destroyer · #11 09-16-2002, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FREED0MFiST
im pretty sure the fmax kit also comes w/ t3/t4 turbo. did you make your turbo for 1500 with new parts? yeah definitly mail those instructions, id much rather pick out everything i want than get overcharged for a kit. my email is [email protected]

no, not all the parts are new but they work great. here i'll give you a list of what i bought and a how much it cost

airesearch T3 turbo-$150
MP equal length turbo manifold w/Deltagate Mark II wastegate-$350
DSM 450 injectors-$50
Resistor box-Free
Greddy turbo timer/Auto Meter A/F and Boost gauges-$150
Custom downpipe-$100
Huge Custom intercooler-$200
Greddy Type-S bov-$75
apexi V-AFC-$250
oil cooler-$25
manual boost controller-$25
Pipes, Hoses, etc.-$100

this was done with about 3 months of searching and buying. there are a lot of places you can look to find parts for cheap. oh and yeah, i sent you the 'how to build a turbo' instructions. if you need anymore help, just email me back. peace.

5_LiTeR_EaTeR · #12 09-19-2002, 09:48 PM

B16s are not as weak as you think they are. The guy you probably raced either didn't know how to drive or was just a moron. I race GSR's all the time out at Gratiot (I live in MI) and I pull on every import there. my B16 with CTR rods and pistons, AEM intake, cheap airmass headers, custom exhaust, ITR cams GC coilovers, Progress camber kit (trick in alignment to gain full traction at a 5k dump... ask my boss) and Clutchmasters Clutch I am running lowest ET of 13.9. When I find my Timeslip stashed in my car somewhere I'll post it up. But you are true the b16 has no torque thas why Im going Ls/vtec turbo. Bottom end torque just kills me. Gearing is geared out the same as ITR. But your got those parts for damn cheap... Want to hook me up wit some parts? I am putting a KKK k24 turbo in my car and I need everything besides the turbo. I am really looking at that equal length header.... email me at [email protected] if ya got anything thanks!!

~Alex~

97gsr · #13 09-29-2002, 09:46 AM

Hey Rice_destroyer...

Could i get a copy of that "how to build a turbo"?
email is: [email protected]

Thanks
97gsr

5_LiTeR_EaTeR · #14 09-29-2002, 10:33 AM

you think you can send me a copy of that to? [email protected].
Thanks!

Rice_destroyer · #15 09-29-2002, 06:55 PM

yeah...i'll send both of you copys. damn people are selling this stupid little info sheet on ebay for like $10! what a ripe off. anyway, i'm not home right now(in some other state) but i'll be home tomorrow so i'll send both of you guys a copy.

oh by the way 5 liter eater...nice setup:ylsuper

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