1996 3.5L Concorde LX no spark no start

[xenon2000]

1996 3.5L Concorde LX died in the driveway at home. Acts like it's out of gas. So this is what I tested.

1. Tested Fuel pressure at the rail. 44psi when fully pressurized.
2. ASD (Auto Shut Down) Relay, tests fine.
3. + Power on the DK Green/Orange wire at each injector and at the ingnition coil pack.
4. No spark from coil.
5. This test I am not sure if I tested accurately. I tested for pulsing grounds on the 3 wires from the PCM to the Ignition coil pack. There are actually 4 wires, 1 is power from the ASD which tests fine. The other 3 are the ground driver signals from the PCM. Using a frequency meter I was not able to get any pulsing grounds on any of the 3 ground driver wires.

So at this point I think it's the PCM. There are no codes using an ELM codescanner. Though it reads the throttle position fine without the car running. So there is communication going on.

I am going to try my frequency test on my Grand Am which is running fine to see if my test was done right.

Local parts yard charges $120 for a used PCM with 25% restocking fee if it doesn't turn out to be that. But before going that route, I was wondering if anyone has any other comments about testing the 3 ground driver outputs on the PCM. If the PCM is fine and just not outputing the grounds to the coil pack because of another input. Then I am surprized that there is no codes such as code 11 for the Crankshaft sensor, etc. I am going to see about trying the test on my Grand Am right now.

[xenon2000]

Well got sidetracked, but now looked at the Grand Am. After reviewing the schematics. I see that the 2001 Grand Am SE V6 doesn't use ground pulses to trigger the coil. So I can't duplicate my test on that running car.

Would be nice to do this test on a running Concorde or any other car with pulsed ground coil drivers.

I don't suppose anyone here also has a frequency meter that could try the test on their concorde that currently runs. (of course for the test, the engine won't start with the PCM 4 wire plug unhooked.) Any takers?

[wafrederick]

pull back the timing cover,the timing belt might be broke or shredded because the water pump is froze up.I have seen this happen and it was the reason why the car would not start and turn over

[wafrederick]

The engine did turn over.Have someone turn the engine over.If the cams do not turn,broken or shredded timing belt and the 3.5 is a non interferance engine.

[xenon2000]

Originally Posted by wafrederick

pull back the timing cover,the timing belt might be broke or shredded because the water pump is froze up.I have seen this happen and it was the reason why the car would not start and turn over

Man, I hope not. Did the timing belt, tensioner, water pump and thermostat just 23 months ago. And it's such a pain. Don't suppose there is another way to check if the belt it busted? Actually, couldn't I check coolant flow with the thermostat removed when cranking? If the belt is shot, then the pump won't operate and I would get no flow. But if a get flow, that would mean the belt is in 1 peice and running the pump.

It was running, she drove it 4 miles back home, parked it and later that day it just wouldn't start like it was out of gas. I should also mention that this same thing happened earlier that same week. But she just waiting a few hours and tried again and it started. But now it won't start. So I am guessing it's not the belt but something electrical that was problematic earlier that same week.

[wafrederick]

Try replacing the crank sensor first before checking the timing belt.

[chinoboi_17]

Originally Posted by xenon2000

1996 3.5L Concorde LX died in the driveway at home. Acts like it's out of gas. So this is what I tested.

1. Tested Fuel pressure at the rail. 44psi when fully pressurized.
2. ASD (Auto Shut Down) Relay, tests fine.
3. + Power on the DK Green/Orange wire at each injector and at the ingnition coil pack.
4. No spark from coil.
5. This test I am not sure if I tested accurately. I tested for pulsing grounds on the 3 wires from the PCM to the Ignition coil pack. There are actually 4 wires, 1 is power from the ASD which tests fine. The other 3 are the ground driver signals from the PCM. Using a frequency meter I was not able to get any pulsing grounds on any of the 3 ground driver wires.

So at this point I think it's the PCM. There are no codes using an ELM codescanner. Though it reads the throttle position fine without the car running. So there is communication going on.

I am going to try my frequency test on my Grand Am which is running fine to see if my test was done right.

Local parts yard charges $120 for a used PCM with 25% restocking fee if it doesn't turn out to be that. But before going that route, I was wondering if anyone has any other comments about testing the 3 ground driver outputs on the PCM. If the PCM is fine and just not outputing the grounds to the coil pack because of another input. Then I am surprized that there is no codes such as code 11 for the Crankshaft sensor, etc. I am going to see about trying the test on my Grand Am right now.

Hi!!! I have the same problem on the 97 concorde with no spark. replaced new coil put still haven't start. So did you find out with your problem? Please let me know if you have found the problem already, because I been trying to fix this car almost a week. Thanks for your time.

[xenon2000]

Originally Posted by chinoboi_17

Hi!!! I have the same problem on the 97 concorde with no spark. replaced new coil put still haven't start. So did you find out with your problem? Please let me know if you have found the problem already, because I been trying to fix this car almost a week. Thanks for your time.

Nope, I still haven't fixed the car yet. It's been sitting in the same place since late last year. Since it's not my car and not at my house, I don't think about it much. And the weather has been too rainy and cold since it's outside, so I am in no rush to fix it. My mom just has to get rides and borrow cars. Oh well.

I will eventually have to work on it again. But turns out that the yard has an ECU not PCM. So I don't have a used source for a PCM to try out. I just wish I could 100% confirm it's the PCM before paying a ton of money for it. Would suck if it still didn't have spark after that. Just sucks because it has fuel pressure and compression, and air. Just no spark. Still pretty sure it's the PCM unit.

[xenon2000]

Can any one confirm this difference in terms. The manual calls it the PCM and it's located in the engine bay. Most cars I have worked on have an ECU inside the interior space. And I always assumed they then had a PCM in the engine bay. But on ebay, everyone is calling the PCM an ECU, and I say this because the picture they show is of the PCM.

Wish people would be consistent in the naming. So as far as the Concorde and Intrepid go, are ECU and PCM the same thing?

Makes me wonder if the PCM would last longer if it wasn't in the engine bay.

[hundahunta]

if your vehicle has a skim key. you need a new/reman pcm and need to validate the vin and transfer the skim code

[xenon2000]

Originally Posted by hundahunta

if your vehicle has a skim key. you need a new/reman pcm and need to validate the vin and transfer the skim code

hmm, it's only a 96. So I doubt it. Not even sure how I would find out. When I called the dealer asking for a new PCM for my 96, they never mentioned a skim key or anything.

Do you know how I would find out?

[gbrooks135]

hello I dont know if this will help or not But I just a 3.5 out of a 95 that had an factory alarm system. I changed over the pcm that was with the motor cause the old motor was a 3.3. any how when I went to start the car it would only run for about 10 sec. and then cut off. what I found out was the anti theft in the alarm was kicking in becasue I didnt transfer the alarm system over. so check to see if the alarm is tuned off.

[xenon2000]

Originally Posted by gbrooks135

hello I dont know if this will help or not But I just a 3.5 out of a 95 that had an factory alarm system. I changed over the pcm that was with the motor cause the old motor was a 3.3. any how when I went to start the car it would only run for about 10 sec. and then cut off. what I found out was the anti theft in the alarm was kicking in becasue I didnt transfer the alarm system over. so check to see if the alarm is tuned off.

Just wanted to let you know that I haven't swapped anything yet. It still has the same stock factory PCM, alarm, radio, etc. It won't start and I THINK it's the PCM because my testing for the ground pulses show it's not pulsing. Although I have positive form the ASD and on the fuel rail and coil pack. Anyways. That is good information for if I do swap the PCM. Although I would like to get a PCM that is for the same size and year of engine. I just wish I knew someone else with a 96 Concorde so I could try theirs out.

[chinoboi_17]

Hi there, I just have the same problem as you, been working for a week thought it was electrical too. Swap pcm, changed the coil, and changed the cam and crank sensor but still my 97 Concorde 3.5 L still don't start. Then at last I removed the timing belt cover and find out the tensioned was bad and cause the timing to jumped couple teeth. Funny thing is the car just replaced the timing belt last year by my boss too. Check your spark plug wires see if it have one spark or two when started or check the injector see if it have one pulsing signal when you first crank. If do then it got to be the timing off. And also on my cam sensor when I removed it I see black grinding dust look like grinding metal stick on the magnetic of the cam sensor. That actually was from the belts been grind, overall please check your timing.

[xenon2000]

Originally Posted by chinoboi_17

... and find out the tensioned was bad and cause the timing to jumped couple teeth. Funny thing is the car just replaced the timing belt last year by my boss too. Check your spark plug wires see if it have one spark or two when started or check the injector see if it have one pulsing signal when you first crank. If do then it got to be the timing off. And also on my cam sensor when I removed it I see black grinding dust look like grinding metal stick on the magnetic of the cam sensor. That actually was from the belts been grind, overall please check your timing.

I just replaced the Water pump, whole tensioner assembly, and belt all last year. Hopefully the belt and tensioner are not already shot with so little driving. And I don't think there is a way to easy pull the cover back without taking off the support beam.

But I can take out the cam sensor and see if I can see anything in there.

I can't find my manual right now. Was hoping to test the camshaft and crankshaft sensors. But I hear the Camshaft sensor is hard to get to.

I will check the belt via the hole for the cam sensor when I have a chance. I still don't feel 100% that it's the PCM. I am sure the PCM is not pulsing the grounds because of another sensor. Still odd that there would not be an engine code if not getting signal from the cam or crankshaft sensors.