Why there is life

[Scorpion531]

I see no reason to believe otherwise than that there is now life because life serves the purpose of everything else that happens in nature, taking things from a higher order to a lower order. This leads me to wonder if life itself is this less ordered state or does it mean that life will result in a less orderd state. Maybe it somehow has to be both, I dont know all that much about thermodynamics but it makes me wonder if this means we our one day destined to annihilate part of the universe, or if it just means we use resources. I must say I think that life itself is a less ordered form and it arose because of that. It would be very interesting to find however that we are actively being pulled toward actions that would ultimatley result in large losses of order. If this is the case I think this would be through productive means not destructive ones.

I would like to hear peoples opinions, in support and against

[thrasher]

The measure of disorder (in thermodynamics) includes the system and the surroundings. Therefore a system (like life) can increase in complexity as long as the amount of disorder of the system and surroundings increases. Since more ordered systems give off more energy to the surroundings as heat trasnfer, increasing complexity is not at odds with thermodynamic theory. Hope that helps.

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by thrasher

The measure of disorder (in thermodynamics) includes the system and the surroundings. Therefore a system (like life) can increase in complexity as long as the amount of disorder of the system and surroundings increases. Since more ordered systems give off more energy to the surroundings as heat trasnfer, increasing complexity is not at odds with thermodynamic theory. Hope that helps.

Then you can see Big Bang as the trigger of this disorder, of what I'd call motion or energy. Since things are moving. And that actually proves that everything that's happening now are a collateral effect, and what we do today are obvious not random.

Question is, will the movement/energy be infinite? Our iol i running out, and weäll have to rely on electric power. Now everything producing power, is consuming something, right? Take Solar energy, It might seem inifinte, but the sun is slowly burning out. So will there be infinity, or will there be an "end of time"? where the disorder and movements stop?

[liquidPunk]

I would say that in actuallity there is no infinity or "forever"

In theory there exists and infinity but not in practice
even though the law states that all energy is transfered and not lost. It mainly depends on your definition, for instance, a dead cell of skin, to me would not really have any energy, but you can burn it, and the atoms compromising it actually have energy stored in their bonds.

so even though the sun is burning energy and will die out, even some of that energy has been absorbed by our skin and turned it darker.

however, more to the point, if all of the stars die out, what good does a lump of dead darker skin do as far as energy in the universe? none, its not usable, so therefore that would represent the end of "Time"

but also, all of this matter that is left over, would eventually gravitate together and heat up and birth a new star.

but obviously no humans could live through the extinction of every star in the univers, and our "time" would have ended. make sense? haha

[MonsterBengt]

Wouldn't it start over then?

[liquidPunk]

Yeah, thats kinda what I was getting at but it was becoming a long post.

So yes, after what I have previously stated, it all would technically start over, stars would form, then planets, and then possibly us again!

This is why they say matter cannot be destroyed... Even though even atoms can be torn apart, and protons exploded, we have always found ever smaller parts that make up the previous thing.

That means that since energy and also matter cant be destroyed then time will never really end, but to my point if there is no intelligent life left in the universe then the concept of time doesnt really have meaning. and to that fact, Time itself would really be restarting.

If you really want to get in depth about it, there is a theory that the Big Bang is actually still occurring... That is to say that the universe is still expanding even to this day. The theory goes on to say that the amount of matter contained in the universe is a finite amount, so the expansion will actually stop and then the entire universe will basically implode on itself and form an ultimately dense spot containing all of the matter in the universe and then something (they dont hypothesize what) will trigger another Big Bang

so again, everything "starts over".

sorry about the long post again.

[Fire-3]

Ever notice how galaxies are basically just orbs rotating around a nucleus? It's the same thing with ions and such. Our universe is probably just an "atom" of sorts for some really awesome universe.

[Scorpion531]

Fire-3 interesting you said that, I was pondering something along those lines in Astronomy today. I was questioning wether or not life (or even the universe) as we know it exists all around us in the directions of extreemly small and unimaginably huge all connected in a way like you said (could this be god?) or even somehow looping around so that the larger system we see as galaxies is really just atom in the system that we see as an atom in our arm.

After a little more thinking this seems wrong for as far I know atoms and galaxies are structured in differnt ways, the nucleus of an atom is only made up of a rather limited number of protons and neutrons when we find solar systems and galaxies to have no such limit (ie. the sun has 9 x 10^56 atoms) so that make me cast serious doubt on the whole idea (including the god part).

liquidPunk, If the universe was to cycle as you say it does I find no reason to believe that it would not be possible to simply escape the collapse of one and rejoin the next universe.

What if the big bang hasn't happend yet?

[beef_bourito]

Originally Posted by liquidPunk

So yes, after what I have previously stated, it all would technically start over, stars would form, then planets, and then possibly us again!

the universe will not go on forever, and it will not keep birthing new stars. the thing is that when a star dies out, a really really big one, it can create a neutron star. this star is incredibly dense and is formed of iron. the only energy that can be extracted from this star is the kinetic energy, the iron will not fuse to form any other element, it will not react with anything, etc. other really big stars can form black holes, where everything that gets sucked in gets compressed into an infinitly small point, called a singularity. anyways, what i'm trying to get at is that eventually will be spent to get everything into a more stable form of matter. the neutron star starts off as a bigass ball of hydrogen that is constantly fusing together to form helium (also known as a star). once that hydrogen has fused and there is none of that fuel left, it collapses and everything fuses together and forms stable iron, energy is spent to make it more stable. eventually all energy will be consumed, and the universe will be quite silent.

Originally Posted by liquidPunk

This is why they say matter cannot be destroyed... Even though even atoms can be torn apart, and protons exploded, we have always found ever smaller parts that make up the previous thing.

wrong, they say that matter can be destroyed and will release energy, they also say that matter can be formed from energy. they have successfuly synthesized particles of matter from energy.

Originally Posted by liquidPunk

If you really want to get in depth about it, there is a theory that the Big Bang is actually still occurring... That is to say that the universe is still expanding even to this day. The theory goes on to say that the amount of matter contained in the universe is a finite amount, so the expansion will actually stop and then the entire universe will basically implode on itself and form an ultimately dense spot containing all of the matter in the universe and then something (they dont hypothesize what) will trigger another Big Bang

the effects of the big bang are still being seen. you're right that the planets, stars, etc are moving farther away, and the universe is expanding. eventually everything should compress into one infinitly small point, at which point they don't know whether or not another big bang will occur. they don't know whether or not a previous big bang has occured.

[MonsterBengt]

Isn't infinity of motion/energy impossible? I mean, If the universe and everything would implode and trigger another Big Bang would occur, it could impossibly look just the same. Or is infinity of motion and energy possible just as infinity itself (size and numbers) and is another thing the human brain is unable to acknowledge?

Though if it is true that the exact same, in every detail and atom, would happen after the next Big Bang, then it would explain the phenomena of Dejavu.

[Dyno247365]

I can't wait till I understand all this stuff, I got some about the stars forming iron.

I was trying to theorize something the other day, and it's not a new idea but a rare one. The atoms that exist in our body today must have existed in other people hundreds of years ago, so what if Reincarnation was chemically possible? What if there was a scientific way to prove the supernatural beliefs?

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

I can't wait till I understand all this stuff, I got some about the stars forming iron.

I was trying to theorize something the other day, and it's not a new idea but a rare one. The atoms that exist in our body today must have existed in other people hundreds of years ago, so what if Reincarnation was chemically possible? What if there was a scientific way to prove the supernatural beliefs?

How do you know that it's the same atoms in that case? That'd work if the Big Bangs were identical. If they differ the slightest, it wont be the same.

[Shpyder]

Q. Why is there life?

A. Shit happens.

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by Shpyder

Why is there life?

Shit happens.

Sad part is, that shit will never stop happening.

Good point though, lol.

[drunken monkey]

Originally Posted by Dyno247365

The atoms that exist in our body today must have existed in other people hundreds of years ago

the time involved in the process of stars reforming means that let's just say that it is possible, none of the people who claim to have past lives' memories would stand because they can't have memories of the events that they claim, unless of course, that each time it happens, an exact copy of our earth including its history and timeline is created each time with the exact same people.