horn design

[cavmansdad]

looking for info on how a horn works on 2003 alero. my problem is that the horn is stuck on. (had to pull the fuse)...notice the pin that activates the horn is touching a metal ring on the steering column. need to know how this works when you press the horn button

[xeroinfinity]

the pin is the power connect, because wires would get twisted and break.
Should hav a spring under it too.

Sometimes the pin gets bent and shorts causing it to stick on. Or the ring that it contacts is broken.

[cavmansdad]

the pin seems to be fine as I can push it in and it springs back. As for the ring, how can you tell if its broke. As I said before the pin is up against the ring. Again, is the pin suppose to move toward the ring or the ring move toward the pin?

[xeroinfinity]

First off did you check or replace the relay ?
If its stuck open it'll keep on honkin till they burn up or the relay dies.

It also could be the horns .
To access the horns remove the right headlamp housing, and uplug and use a jumper wire to test the horn with power from the battery.
The green(might be dark green) is the + power side, the black ground it.

The switch in the steering wheel(on top of tthe air bag) might also be the culprit.

That pin just rids against the ring and alows curent to run through it.

Hope that clearified things.

[cavmansdad]

i check the relay switch and that seem to be good. (swapped it with another relay that matches it). The horn does blow. Also when I put the fuse in the horn goes off also.. As for the switch in the steering wheel. Where abouts is it? When you say "on top" are you talking about the yellow plug for the air bag? what does it look like? Would I have to pull the air bag out to get at it? I am a little leary working around the air bag.

[xeroinfinity]

I would be leary of messing with the horn switch in the steering wheel.
It is located right on top of the air bag, and I'm not even sure you can get to it unless the air bag has blown. Which then it rippes the switch in half.
The switch it just some thin plastic with copper foil type wires, they are in layers, when you push on the horn they touch completing the curcuit.

If you do try and see whats going on, disconnect the battery, and pull the fuse for the air bag.
Some torx screws hold the thing on from behund the Steering wheel. The YELLO wire is the trigger for the C4 thats in the bag
Becarefull, and Good Luck !

[cavmansdad]

thx. I will give that a try. I remember taking the air bag off with the kids other car (cavalier) when someone busted up the steering column trying to steal it. I had to replace the whole steering column (including ignition, blinkers and signal switches) with a used one from the junk yard and had to take off his old steering wheel and air bag from the trashed one and put it in the new set-up. The anti theft light and check engine light are always on but the car runs and thats what counts. I was told the dealer could fix that by telling the computer to recognize the new/used steering column. So, I understand what your saying about the air bag. I will give this a try and let ya know how it worked out. Might be awhile with all the time I have to spare. hehe
Thanks again for your opinions.

PS. Hail!! to all Grand am owners. 1994 Grand Am GT 220,000 miles and still going.

[cavmansdad]

Well, it didn'nt work. I was able to get the air bag out to see the horn switch. The problem was that the switch is under a hard plastic protector. The switch was not the design that you thought it was. from what I could see, it was a continious board with a connection on each end (red and black). I was unable to see if the (race track type) board was damaged. I did disconnect the red and/or black wire and the horn did not work. Could this be a sign that the board switch is damaged? Could I go to the junk yard and put in a new steering wheel cover? If the horn would work, then for sure it would be a damaged board switch in the steering wheel. Would hate to waste the money to try that but I have no other way to track this down. What does the red wire do? I seen that it is plug into cylinder and has a spring. I look at that and it seems ok. Any other ideas to trobleshoot this problem or is there any other info you need to help?

[xeroinfinity]

connect a ohms meter to the red and black connectors then push the horn switch.
If the switch is good it'll show the ohms, if not the switch is bad.

You did check all the fuses/relays for your horn ??

So if its not the switch(or fuse/relay) and the horn works with direct current then it has to be in the wiring.
Havnt heard of any bcm or pcm troubles that would cause the horn not to work.

Good Luck