Starter problems for my PT Cruiser

[tomdooley62]

OK, heres the lowdown on my starter on my 2003 PT Cruiser Have had it replaced twice in the past.The dealer replaced it once again. When I went to pick it up they said that they may have found what was causing the issue. They said it was the way that I have my amp wired.... Let me explain how I have it wired and you guys can give me your take on it. I have a 8 gauge wire running directly from my positive battery terminal to the amp. I have the 12 volt remote turn on wire which is supposed to be connected to a circuit that has only power when the car is switched on. I tapped on to the 12 volt accessory oultet in hatch.Which is a switched 12 volt source.Seems correct dosent it? Scosche amp 2 10" subs.

They were telling me that the amp is trying to power up when the car is cranking and drawing voltage away from the starter and that is causing the starter to fail. They said that with the starter not getting the 12 volts that it needs that is putting a strain on the insides of starter. They suggested wiring the remote turn on wire into wiring harness of radio so that there is power to remote turn on only when the radio is turned on. They showed me that the radio turns off briefly when the car is starting therefore the amp will not be requiring voltage at start up of car.

I told them that I didn't totally agree with them on this. Before I left dealer and in there presence I removed fuses for the amp so that it is not functional. I will keep it like this for a couple of months to see if there is any difference then on the other hand maybe they got me a good starter this time.


Below is the answer I got from Scosche:


First time I’ve heard this one.

I do not believe the amplifier’s wiring is the cause of your starting problem. The amplifier draws little power and will never impede the vehicles ability to turn on.

Amplifier installations into vehicles with factory radios is quite common, however the vast majority of factory radios do not provide amp turn on power (remote turn on). In these vehicles it is necessary to connect your amp turn wire to ACC power which is what you have done. I have yet to come across a situation in which the failure of car to start was successfully traced to the remote turn on wire.



--
Jorge Barrios
Technical Support Specialist
Scosche Industries Inc.
(800) 363-4490 x154
[email protected]



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[bjboertje]

i don't think it is your remote wire, but you could try moving it to the head unit's remote turn on. then if it happens again they can't say it was the way you have the amp wired.

[bjboertje]

Originally Posted by tomdooley62

The amplifier draws little power and will never impede the vehicles ability to turn on.

That is not entirely true, an amp draws a ton of power (depending on it's size). It can even draw so much power that when the vehicle is running it causes the vehicle to shut off because there is not enough power for the engine's electrical components. But it draws none when the vehicle is being started.

[tomdooley62]

I appreciate you guys views on this. It is the stock head unit in my car 6 disc am fm. I dont know even if it is eqipped with a remote turn on wire on it.
I realize that an amp can draw copius amounts of voltage when really cranked up but this is hardly ever and I do mean ever in my case. The switched circuit I have the remote wired to acts just like the circuit that the radio is wired.

The tech at the Chrysler dealer kept showing me how when he swtiched the car on the subs would have a soft thump to them. Even with the radio switched off. I told him that it was because the way the remote turn on was wired that it would have that thump simply because there is no signal running to it from the radio at that time. He kept saying that it shouldnt thump. I told him I realised that but it was because of no signal reaching the amp. I agreed that if it was using a head unit remote turn on you wouldnt hear it beacuse of signal being sent to it.

I probably will run a wire to the head unit if there is one for it there. If not there is another switched 12 volt acc outlet on console and could just wire it into there and they would probably never take the radio out just to see cause he already told me that its a monster to get out.

All this really came about cause they are having to replace starter under warranty and said Chrysler will probably come down on them if they keep having to do it.

[PaulD]

disconnect all of the amp wiring until it does it again (however painful that will be to live without your music), then they will have to find the REAL problem. The amp should only draw about 1 amp at most with no signal coming from the CD player, make sure you turn the CD player off when you turn the car off.

[tomdooley62]

I have posted this question on several other boards and am getting the same replies you guys are giving me and I really do appreciate it.

I have did numerous installs in the past...in my younger days on cars from anything from my classic 1968 Camaro to IROC Z's. I realize that todays cars have a lot more voltage and current needs than my old Camaro but the basics of electricity stays the same.



I have took the liberty of a couple weeks ago and replaced the battery with a higher cca one.Alternator checks out good. Car would not crank even with a jump when this situation was occurring. So voltage in my opinion was not the concern.The amp does not have power when car is switched off. Amp is Scosche small amp dont even remember the model but it is only like 100 watts or so. It is one that Wal Mart carries or at least it did. I have been very pleased with it.Speakers are 2 10 inch Lightning Audio subs. I didnt want a competetion type sound just a little more bass and volume from stereo.

When the starter would fail you could tap the starter with tire tool. I do mean just tap it no hard jarring needed and it would crank. I really think that Chrysler just got two bad starters in a row.

Thanks for all the input. I may need this info if I have to go up against them for warranty claims.

Anymore ideas would be helpful too.

[PaulD]

I will haveto loo0k it up, but there is something like the magnuson-stedman act from congress ....... the dealer has to prove that some aftermarket equipment was to blame to deny you warranty.

[ponchonutty]

I seriously doubt the dealer's idea is correct but any more draw put on these newer car's electrical systems can be a problem. This is especially true when you are talking about the PT/Neon line. I should know, I own one AND own/operate a car alarm shop.

The power taking the amp to power up should be minimal but if you have a weaker battery or weak power cables/battery connections can make this matter worse.

Personally, what I'd do is change the turn on lead to the accessory and not ignition. Reason??? The reason is that ALL vehicles are wired to shut down the acc. circuits when cranking to get EVERY amount of power it can to start the car. So, wiring your amp this way will ensure that it's actually off until the car is started.

[bjboertje]

not ALL vehicles. my 95 Aspire didn't.

[OffRoadSonoma]

For how much some of you guys know about electrical I have no clue why you don't do the easy thing. What I've done in every vehicle I've put an amp in is take the remote wire and run it from the back of the head unit through the dash and cut and wire in a toggle switch then run the remote wire back to the amp. It doesn't have to be any kind of fancy switch but it can if you want. But then you can turn the switch off whenever you want and it would be like disconnecting the remote wire completely. Then your amp wouldn't be on when starting your car(as long as you have the switch off), when a police man is next to you waiting to give you a ticket or when your headache is so bad you need to turn the bass off but still want normal music. That would eliminate every problem and question about that setup. And if the dealer was still bitching you can tell him to go get his trusty little volt meter and check it just to prove there is no current draw because you have an interrupter switch wired in thus providing an incomplete circuit and not allowing current to flow unless you have a short somewhere.

[bjboertje]

did you read his posts? he doesn't know if he has a rem wire on his head unit in the first place.

[tomdooley62]

Thats correct. Upon deeper reasearch I have found out that the head unit does not have a turn on or power ant wire. I mean I know what to wire it to its just that the idea of the dealer saying that 99.99% of the ways I have heard to wire a unit with out a remote turn on wire is killing my starter.

There is a switched 12 volt acc outlet on console. I know it cuts off when car is cranking cause that is where i currently have my radar detector plugged into. Switching car on ....detector cuts off... once cars is running detector powers back up. Essintally the same thing as a remote power turn on ...correct?I just dont want to hear fromt the dealer that its my problem. I did check on the sema.com website concerning the ways that warrantys have to be handled when something like this occurs. And the way I read it was that just beacuse they think it, it will not standup for a warranty denial. It has to be proven incoclusively. sorry for the spelling I am in a hurry.

[PaulD]

yep, that's the Magnusom-Stedman act (names are spelled wrong I am sure) ..... the dealer has the proof of burden. Try going to the Dodge/PT Cruiser section, they may know more about starter problems than anyone here.