New Engine vs. Rebuilt Engine

[Luscious]

Hello, I have a 95 Windstar LX that just started making a loud rattling noise. I had it towed to a repair shop and was told that there is a rod from one of the cylinders in the bottom of the engine. They told me that they do not do engine work, but it looks like I'm gonna need a new engine. So now I don't really know what my options are as to what is the cheapest way to get it repaired. Not sure if getting a rebuilt engine would be cheaper, or the same as getting a brand new engine. At what price range am I looking at here? Or if it's worth it to get it fixed at all. It still runs, but makes a real loud noise, so I just have it towed by AAA. I'm at my wits end trying to figure out what to do! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[phil-l]

I'm sorry to hear about the problems with your van. I'm sure this is no fun, and you're stressing out right now. Stop! Breath in; breath out. Relax. It's just a vehicle; it will all work out somehow.

Now on to the issues at hand...

If the engine really threw a connecting rod, I wouldn't want to fix that engine anyway. It's extraordinarily difficult to guarantee *everything* that was damaged in such a situation is fixed correctly. BTW, you might want to have a more experience shop check it out; quickie repair shops that don't do serious engine work don't always get the diagnosis right (bad personal experience has taught me to be wary of 'it needs a new engine' statements).

In reality, you're probably looking at installing a rebuilt engine. If you could even find a factory-new engine for a '95, the price would be prohibitive.

In any case, quality rebuilt engines will last as long and run as well as the original. The key will be the costs involved.

A co-worker of mine had a head gasket fail on his '96 Windstar; coolant leaked into the engine intake - and seriously damaged engine internals the next time it was started (BTW, I suspect this may be what happened to your '95, which are noted for head gasket failures. Has yours been repaired before?). He had a rebuilt engine installed; I seem to recall the whole job cost close to $4000 (surburban Baltimore area prices, private repair shop). As always, talk to some local shops to see what price ranges you might be looking at.

Now you need to do some math. What is the van worth - and what is it worth to you? What's your current budget situation? Is the van otherwise in good condition?

If you really want to keep the van - and need to spend less - you could also find a shop that will install a used engine (not all shops want to do this kind of work). You take a few more chances in this situation (no one can guarantee how well a used engine will work out), but you can save some money. It still won't be cheap - there's a tremendous amount of labor involved in swapping an engine.

Of course, you also need to compare to the possibility of buying a similar used van. I've seen used Windstars on eBay sell for very reasonable money (though you've got to be willing to put in the time and effort to find a good deal and avoid problem vehicles).

Personally, if my Windstar blew up tomorrow, I'd be pricing rebuilt engines. The van has been good for us - plus I've done some modifications to it to tow a popup camper. If, for some reason, that didn't make sense - I'd be looking at 2002+ Windstars (which got the new, well-regarded transmission upgrade) or early Freestars (I'd love to find a 4.2l with OEM tow package).

I hope your situation goes well for you. Let us know how it works out!

[Luscious]

Thank you so much for your quick reply Phil. We bought the Windstar about 2 1/2 years ago for $3500 used. It has been a great vehicle, and already came with a rebuilt transmission. Never really had any engine problems, and drove very well. Just the thought of spending around $4k on getting it fixed is driving me up the walls. lol. I have been looking at rebuilt engines for $1500 and up, but know that the labor would run in similiar figures. So if it's around $4k, I would rather spend that on a whole new used vehicle. Right now I am planning on paying the fee for having it checked and getting AAA to tow it back home for now. It is still salvagable, but not worth the dough for me. For the price of fixing it I can get a 99 Windstar SEL, but I'm wondering if it will have the same problem, since you mentioned after 02. I don't want a repeat. Should I be looking at Chrysler minivans instead? Not sure, because I really like the Freestar. Do you think there would be any mechanics out there interested in a Windstar like mine? Or a student mechanic? Or maybe I should donate it? Well thanks again Phil.

[phil-l]

Early Windstars were noted for head gasket and transmission problems (specifically the '95 and '96 model years). I believe all of these serious problems were resolved before the '99 models.

I've had no transmission problems in my '00 - but I also do some trailer towing, so I'm more interested in the details than most folks. My interest in the '02+ models is because those transmission internals are shared with the F150. Again, this isn't a knock on post '96-or-so transmissions.

You should do fine with a well-cared-for '99.

Regarding other makes: Note that Chrysler went through their own years of transmission horror stories - though, again, by the late 90's these problems seemed to be a thing of the past. Personally, I like the Windstar design - and the fact that you get a lot for your money compared to other choices.

As always: Do your research; weigh your choices; make your decision.

[Luscious]

Thanks again Phil. I am really thinking about getting the 99 SEL for around $4k. I too really like the Windstar design. My sisters both have Dodge Caravans which I do not like at all. It just feels like it has so much less room, and I hate the way the it feels when I drive them.
Well since my hubby is really no help when it comes to our automobiles, I am very grateful for your input. You can only imagine the people I have to deal with just to get an honest answer. And of course, it's always my fault when things go wrong, because I should of known better....lol. But Thank You for the great advice. It's much appreciated!

[ModMech]

As a mechanic, I would not even consider a rebuilt gas engine. The manufacturing cost for a NEW engine is far less than the rebuilding cost of a used one to the same or similar quality.

Since you have a '95, with known issues in the area of the transmission and engine, I would advise you to cut your losses on that nearly 12 YO vehicle and simply replace it. I suspect you could purchase a much newer Wind/Freestar with similar mileage to your '95 for LESS than the cost to repair what you have. Even if you need to spend a few thousand more, you would be ahead.

Now, it is important to remember that ANY vehicle is subject to break-downs, and just because it's newer, older, lower mileage, whatever does not mean that it cannot bite you.

[Luscious]

Thank you ModMechanic, I feel so much better hearing that from a Mechanic. It makes alot of sense, and I was just thinking the same thing, but wasn't sure exactly about the difference. Thanks for your insightful input. I am having the van towed back home on Monday, and then I am looking into donating it or something. I got an offer for $300 from a student mechanic who is looking for a project on a broken vehicle. Also a Children's Hospital is willing to pick it up and give me a tax write off. In the meanwhile I am looking for another vehicle to replace this one. How much do Mechanics charge to look at a used vehicle, if I am interested in getting one checked out before purchasing it? Again, Thank you for your response.

[ModMech]

They should charge NO MORE than 1/2 hour's labor. At prevailing rates, $40-$50.

[rodeo02]

Originally Posted by ModMech

As a mechanic, I would not even consider a rebuilt gas engine. The manufacturing cost for a NEW engine is far less than the rebuilding cost of a used one to the same or similar quality...

A brand-new factory short or long block is less expensive than a rebuild? Costs aside, they are difficult to source to say the least.

Joel

[Luscious]

Originally Posted by ModMech

They should charge NO MORE than 1/2 hour's labor. At prevailing rates, $40-$50.

Thanks Mod Mechanis I will defintely use that info.

Originally Posted by rodeo02

A brand-new factory short or long block is less expensive than a rebuild? Costs aside, they are difficult to source to say the least.

Joel

I was looking into that Joel and I know you're right, but what I was wondering is about how much the labor would cost to get it installed? I have 4 brand new tires on this van, plus a rebuilt transmission and all the features I could want out of a minivan. what is the most cost effective way to do this? Would ordering the engine myself and then finding a mechanic to install it, cut the cost? or is that something that just isn't done? I am still looking at different options, because my mother is giving me her minivan to use until I decide what I am going to do with mine. Or if I should just wait another year and save up to get a brand new Freestar?

[wiswind]

From an economic standpoint.....buying a brand new vehicle is not the best way to go.
A vehicle will depreciate about 40-50% in the first 3 years.......
If you buy a 3 year old vehicle, in good condition, someone else has taken the brunt of the depreciation......and you can save a LOT of money.
Of course, you could end up with a problem vehicle......but you are still a bunch of money ahead if you buy a powertrain warrenty from the manufacturer.
Of course, you don't get that pride of owning a new vehicle.......and I do love that feeling.

Jasper engines and transmissions (expensive) will give you a list of local installers on their website. That might be a way to find a good local shop.
They have a very good warrenty on their engines.
They claim to have made the improvements in their re-manufacturing process.....as in using the improved gaskets that I mentioned.

Again, it comes down to a personal choice......and engine is a LOT of money......and if the tranny goes out a month later, you have made a bad choice.
If you buy another vehicle.....and have problems, you may have made a bad choice again (I would get that warranty, which would help a LOT).

I bought my '96 in '99, with just under 38K miles on it.
I ended up replacing the transmission at 100K miles.
I have had other repairs.....most I did myself.
Now, at over 173K miles.....It is running great....and I plan to keep driving it.

[Luscious]

That was some great information wiswind. I think I like that idea alot. I was debating between a new and used vehicle, which had more promise. I really hate dealing with car salesmen! Right now I am checking on my insurance to see the deductible on my comprehension insurance so it will cover part of the cost of fixing the engine, then maybe selling it. Not sure if that is a bright idea or not. By the way, my insurance is very low, so adding to it in premiums is no big deal versus shelling out $4k to fix an engine. Has anyone ever dealt with getting your insurance to fix an engine? Again, thanks everyone for all your input and great advice. I am starting to form a plan of action.

[rodeo02]

IMO- I wouldn't even consider putting all that $ into a 1995 with the intention of selling it. You'll just loose more money. Fixing it to drive until the wheels fall off is another story. If keeping this van is a must, I'd ask around for a reputable independant shop to install a reman'd engine for you. I would not put more than maybe ~$2500 into a clean 1995. Anymore than that would be well spent towards something else.

G/luck
Joel