Starter cranks but the engine struggles

[slepec]

First I would like to say "Thank You" to everybody being so helpful in solving my problems (especially KnuckleEars).

But there's another problem waiting to be solved.

When the engine is cold, it only fires up in fourth or fifth attempt, sometimes a bit hesitantly, sometimes like it should. When is hot, no problems - it fires up immediatelly. The starter sounds good (as far as I can tell), battery at almost full...

On AutoZone I read that it could be "Distance too great between starter pinion and flywheel". How to fix this?

Or it could be the distributor? Would checking the cables and spraying a bit of WD-40 on the contacts help?

Is it a fuel pump? Ignition coil, module¸ pick up coil?

Some other "hidden" device, valve, solenoid?

I'm not that worried, but the starter will eventually overheat (due to so many unnecessary cranks) and stop working.

The point is that during driving there are no problems at all. The engine works like it should (for a '94 TS).

Any thoughts, ideas, self-repair instructions are highly welcomed.

[Jeffrv]

This sounds like a problem in your fuel pump relay circuit, preventing power from getting to the fuel pumps as designed. Normally the fuel pump is energized thru the fuel pump relay, controlled by ECM/PCM, but it sounds like yours has failed. Instead the fuel pump is powered thru contacts in the oil pressure switch. The engine has to be cranked long enough to generate the oil presure to close the switch then prime the fuel rail to provide fuel to the injectors, and this takes time once the engine is cold and fuel pressure may have bled down overnight. Check the relay and associated wiring.
Good luck.
Jeff

[slepec]

Thanks, jeffrv.

I'll check on these and see what's going on.

[slepec]

Thanks, jeffrv.

I'll check on these and see what's going on.

[knuckle ears]

Originally Posted by Jeffrv

This sounds like a problem in your fuel pump relay circuit, preventing power from getting to the fuel pumps as designed. Normally the fuel pump is energized thru the fuel pump relay, controlled by ECM/PCM, but it sounds like yours has failed. Instead the fuel pump is powered thru contacts in the oil pressure switch. The engine has to be cranked long enough to generate the oil presure to close the switch then prime the fuel rail to provide fuel to the injectors, and this takes time once the engine is cold and fuel pressure may have bled down overnight. Check the relay and associated wiring.
Good luck.
Jeff

Yes I agree with Jeffrv. The relays are under the hood on the passenger side behind the head light in the engine compartment. Check with autozone to identify.

If all check out okay replace the fuel pump. It is not too hard to replace. 4 bolts hold up the gas tank straps but just undo the 2 closest to the side of the van. Undo the gas tank rubber filler hose and wrap the tank inlet with plastic wrap and electrical tape to ensure no spillage from the tank. Undo the return rubber hose from the tank. The gas tank will now slip down and you will see the hose connections going to the engine. Undue them and also the electrical terminal to the fuel pump in the tank.
You now have to turn the retaining ring that holds the pump to the tank. Use a hammer and a piece of hard wood or a brass drift to eliminate sparks.

Also spray some lube on the ring to make it easy to turn. Once the ring is turn all the way the pump comes out. Replace pump being carefull not to bend any components.

[slepec]

I believe I'll have to do just that. I checked the relay (replaced it with a relay from friend's TS, no change), wiring (as far as I could reach, OK), and the only thing left is the pump itself.

The funny thing is that I couldn't find the 20A INJ fuse. Should be behind the right headlamp, but there are only the relays. No plastic or rubber boot, which should hold the fuse. I'm slightly confused because the fuse box under the glove comp. doesn't hold no INJ fuse either, neither is located under the box, near the PCM (actually, there are four fuses: ordinary 15A, and three bigger 20A 14.5V "things" I believe are fuses. What are they?). Am I missing something? Maybe the previous owner did something and put it somewhere else... The INJ fuse is the only thing I couldn't check, beside the pump and the wiring leading form the pump, just above the tank. There is a small plastic box fixed to the right bender with some 20 or more wires leading in and out the box (wires to the injectors?). I opened it (on top and on bottom, there's no fuse inside. Maybe it is inside the metal container, which I couldn't open not to break it). Would be really simple if it was only the fuse...

Well, I'll try to find a reasonably cheap pump, install it and see what happens.

I'll report the costs when done.

Thank you both and wish you many more succesful miles

[LMP]

Best before going for the fuel pump is check fuel pressure at fuel rail. SHould read round 45 psi but slightly more or less does not make it a no-go. Of course fuel filter is right there under and easy to change....a normal maintenance item anyway.
By the way, do you hear the fuel pump buzz for a second at key-ON ?
ALso, since you talk of the "distributor", is this a 3.1? if so, there is no INJ fuse under the hood. ....and the "fuel rail" is simply the fuel pipe to the throttle body twin injectors. www.avigex.ca/xport/31fuelcontrol.jpg
ALways mention engine type, this can avoid a lot of confusion.
My guess is rather on the electronic side: the ignition pickup in the 3.1 distributor and the ignition module (ignitor) are inexpensive and easy to change..and common source of problems after a decade....

[slepec]

Sorry I didn't mention the TS type. You are right: it's a 3.1.

About the buzz:
I hear the buzz for about 2 seconds, coming from the front right side under the hood (FP relay, which I checked/replaced). Is this the buzz you were mentioning?

The problem also is that so many symptoms have similar characteristics, so it's hard to diagnose the problem exactly. In my case the main symptom would be: it starts immediatelly when engine hot. When engine cold it cranks and after 20-30 secs it starts, sometimes I have to crank again. Now, sometimes starts like it should (all valves in a correct firing order), sometimes it struggles, like an old diesel. It doesn't really matter what the outside temperature is.

Anyway, here is 9 PM, I'll check the filter tomorrow, but the ignition pickup, distributor, and ignitor are way out of my league since my knowledge of electricity is very poor. Yes, my twelve-year old needs a touch of a professional.

Thank you all very much. Since I've been visiting this forum, I've solved most of the problems with my TS, and most importantly, this forum certainly reduced costs of repair.

[LMP]

Originally Posted by slepec

I hear the buzz for about 2 seconds, coming from the front right side under the hood .Is this the buzz you were mentioning? .

Negative... I'm talking about the fuel pump priming burst. THe buzz should be heard from under the car, in fact from the fuel tank area. But the 2 sec you say is what it should be: sometimes the source of the sound can be confusing...

[knuckle ears]

Originally Posted by slepec

Sorry I didn't mention the TS type. You are right: it's a 3.1.

About the buzz:
I hear the buzz for about 2 seconds, coming from the front right side under the hood (FP relay, which I checked/replaced). Is this the buzz you were mentioning?

The problem also is that so many symptoms have similar characteristics, so it's hard to diagnose the problem exactly. In my case the main symptom would be: it starts immediatelly when engine hot. When engine cold it cranks and after 20-30 secs it starts, sometimes I have to crank again. Now, sometimes starts like it should (all valves in a correct firing order), sometimes it struggles, like an old diesel. It doesn't really matter what the outside temperature is.

Anyway, here is 9 PM, I'll check the filter tomorrow, but the ignition pickup, distributor, and ignitor are way out of my league since my knowledge of electricity is very poor. Yes, my twelve-year old needs a touch of a professional.

Thank you all very much. Since I've been visiting this forum, I've solved most of the problems with my TS, and most importantly, this forum certainly reduced costs of repair.

Ahh, 3.1. I have a friend who had a similar problem. We changed the small round coil in the distributor becuase it looked quite frayed and burnt and scruffy looking. It didn't solve the problem. We then changed the square looking coil outside and bolted to the engine and all was well after that. I think we were going to change the ignition module in the distributor but it was quite expensive and we were going by trial and error.

[slepec]

I drove the car to the mechanic yesterday and he said my fuel pump was as dead as a run-over chicken. He replaced the pump (120$ cca., his work included) and did some cheking on the ignition. Now it starts like a charm.

Yet another problem solved, few more are waiting...

Thank you guys for all the thoughts and suggestions.

I'll be back soon..., probably.