If you've run E85 in a non-flex fuel car and had great results, let us know.

[AWDriver]

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...38#post4370738

I've got my E85 conversion chart up and running. It is my desire to prove/disprove what works and what needs changing in older model cars to run higher concentrations of ethanol. We've got a Chevy Caprice on the list that runs without any problems at all. A 221,000mile Honda runs it, too. Neither have any difficulties. Factories have blown smoke up your ass as to what works and what doesn't on their cars for E85. It's more or less on orders from big oil, too.

I don't take orders from either one.

E85 worked fine in my Subaru for 15,000 miles. The 221k Honda has run it for 30,000 miles. The Caprice has run it for 8,000 miles. 3 more WRX's have run it for 3,000-12,000 miles apiece with varying stages of mods. There is no voodoo or boogeymen involved in running this stuff. However, we're still in the beginning stages of folks running this stuff, and those who are testing it aren't fighting with the doubters and nay-sayers that say we can't do it.

We're all proving that it works with very little labor and parts changes. there's more of you out there using it, too. Please let us know who you are!

Gary
http://www.gt-labs.net

[KimMG]

How is the fuel economy with the various vehicles mentioned above? What are the costs associated with modifying the vehicles? How are the rubber parts holding up?

[AWDriver]

Originally Posted by KimMG

How is the fuel economy with the various vehicles mentioned above? What are the costs associated with modifying the vehicles? How are the rubber parts holding up?

There is roughly 10-15% loss in mileage, but notable power increases of strangely, 10-15%. My own car showed the same results. Rubber shows no sign of deterioration in any of them. Costs can range from 5 cents (hose clamp mod), to $500 for tweaked vehicles needing larger injectors and computer adjustments to fuel and timing. Steel fuel lines do fine, as do most rubbers. Aluminum fuel rails corrode unless they are anodized. There's some ins and outs to pin down, but it's all a part of the process of learning about it. I got lucky with my Subaru, IMO.

I'm not saying that this will work perfectly on EVERY car--That's what we're trying to pin down. We don't have the resources or money to test EVERY model of vehicle on the road. We'd like to hear about success and failure both. Some late vehicles have done it on accident and it ruined the rubber fuel lines (1st gen Mitsu supposedly). Some others ran it on accident, ran great, and never had a problem (1984+ chrysler minivans of all things. VW Rabbits, too!) We'd like to get all that stuff straight if at all possible.

[KimMG]

Since E85 is 15% less gasoline, and you have noticed a 10-15% loss in fuel economy, sounds like the ethanol is an inert ingredient. I see no advantage of spending money on converting a car to run on E85 when I have to stop to refuel more often.

Have you done any testing using bio-diesel? From what I have read (not much) bio-diesel seems interesting on a small scale, taking a waste product from cooking and using it as a fuel.

[AWDriver]

Originally Posted by KimMG

Since E85 is 15% less gasoline, and you have noticed a 10-15% loss in fuel economy, sounds like the ethanol is an inert ingredient. I see no advantage of spending money on converting a car to run on E85 when I have to stop to refuel more often.

Have you done any testing using bio-diesel? From what I have read (not much) bio-diesel seems interesting on a small scale, taking a waste product from cooking and using it as a fuel.

We'll be covering biodiesel, but we haven't done any testing with it ourselves. We were more interested in ethanol in our gasoline powered cars.

E85 isn't 15% less gasoline, nor is it like 85 octane. Check out the links page on my site at http://www.gt-labs.net/links.html. There's plenty of information about E85 there. Google is also your friend . Ethanol is anything but an inert ingredient, and I have NO idea where you got that info. If a renewable fuel dropped to 1.00/gal or less, then I'm all for the switch, even if the mileage is slightly worse. Honda has made a recent development in ethanol production that could finally make switchgrass ethanol a reality. There's enough of the stuff in the midwest to rival the output of OPEC once cellulosic ethanol is perfected.

Production and politics aside, this stuff works. Make NO mistake about that. I can't single handledly raise everyone's IQ on ethanol fuel. But, I am making a dent .

[KimMG]

I know alcohol is not an inert ingredient. My understanding was E85 is 85% gas and 15% ethanol. I now know that the ratio is the other way around, 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol has been used for years in drag racing due to higher horse power output.
I'm all for developing alternative energy sources. One example is that I think all new home construction should have solar panels for generating electricity and heating water.
I live in an area where a gallon of fuel is 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol. I have noticed a drop in fuel economy with my vehicles. With higher pump prices and less miles to the gallon, I'm paying more for each mile I drive. I'm also having higher maintenance costs with one of my cars due to the rubber fuel lines deteriorating at a faster rate. I have had to refresh the carburetor twice due to failing seals in seven years and I only put about 45,000 miles on the car in that period of time.
What kind of longevity have you experienced with the new parts? Specifically flexible fuel lines, seals and electric fuel pumps.
If the true costs of converting a vehicle to E85 is around $500- and the price of fuel per gallon were to drop to $1-, I can see most people recouping the costs of conversion in less than a year, and provided there are no excessive maintenance costs, drivers getting more miles to the dollar.

[AWDriver]

Originally Posted by KimMG

I know alcohol is not an inert ingredient. My understanding was E85 is 85% gas and 15% ethanol. I now know that the ratio is the other way around, 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline. Ethanol has been used for years in drag racing due to higher horse power output.
I'm all for developing alternative energy sources. One example is that I think all new home construction should have solar panels for generating electricity and heating water.
I live in an area where a gallon of fuel is 90% gasoline and 10% ethanol. I have noticed a drop in fuel economy with my vehicles. With higher pump prices and less miles to the gallon, I'm paying more for each mile I drive. I'm also having higher maintenance costs with one of my cars due to the rubber fuel lines deteriorating at a faster rate. I have had to refresh the carburetor twice due to failing seals in seven years and I only put about 45,000 miles on the car in that period of time.
What kind of longevity have you experienced with the new parts? Specifically flexible fuel lines, seals and electric fuel pumps.
If the true costs of converting a vehicle to E85 is around $500- and the price of fuel per gallon were to drop to $1-, I can see most people recouping the costs of conversion in less than a year, and provided there are no excessive maintenance costs, drivers getting more miles to the dollar.

Now I know where you are coming from . I've got ethanol compatible fuel line listed on my site, but it's hig pressure EFI line from Napa Autoparts. The cost to convert EFI cars is usually much lower than a carb equipped cars. I haven't gotten around to making a fix-it list for carb-equipped cars yet.

Might I suggest a carb change to one of Holley's alcohol carbs? What kind of car/truck is it? A lot of older carburetor equipped cars aren't compatible with ethanol, but the parts can still be changed to handle it. I specifically mention on the site that I don't do carb'd cars yet, but they aren't impossible. They are more involved, though. My scoob took just two hours to do with an injector swap. Carb'd cars take a lot longer with changing fuel lines, carbs, and sometimes gas tanks, too. Don't use paper or non-galvanized rubber gaskets and don't use foam floats in the carb. Aluminum doesn't like ethanol, either.

Richen your carb settings just a touch, and advance the timing SLIGHTLY 1-2 degrees and you should get more mileage back. E10 Shouldn't cost you more than 2-3% mileage at the very very most. Ethanol is also an "octane booster" of sorts. It isn't just another crazy emissions restriction.

[72' Stang 351 H/O]

My dad put gas that was mixed with E85 in his mazda b2300 pickup (1994) and got worse gas milage, and the truck bogged down when he tried to floor it.

[tbrdlvr88]

Originally Posted by 72' Stang 351 H/O

My dad put gas that was mixed with E85 in his mazda b2300 pickup (1994) and got worse gas milage, and the truck bogged down when he tried to floor it.

Yes, an unmodified non-flexfuel vehicle will have problems. The computer cannot handle it. To run E85 it needs a converter to help make the needed adjustments. Fuel mileage normally will drop some, usually 5-15%. Not bad when most areas are 20% or more cheaper for E85. I'm running a 96 Cougar 4.6l with a converter from E85andyou.com. I love it. Saving money, reducing polution and showing the arabs what I think of their $100.00/barrel oil.

[Gnatow]

Hi Write more, please
[email protected]

[Bassasasin]

Flexfuel vehicles have important differences.
Methanol has a great capability of holding water.
To prevent damage, fuel tanks, fuel lines and timing are only some of the changes to accommodate fuel flexibility.