95 1.9L Head or Gasket

[stepheneking]

Here is the deal....about a year ago my car died while I was comming home from work. It just started to loose compression and died. I parked it came back the next day and checked the timming belt. It was find but I changed it anyway. Wouldn't start. So I took it to a shop...they were idiots....they ended up putting three different relays on it and inertia switch, the computer on the car...with no prevail...then they told me no compression on #1 cyl finaly I told them to stop...I parked the car for a year..

Now I've got enough time to get it running again...I decide to change the head gasket. So I do ..I look at the old one and it looks like crap..So anyway I go to start it up and it turns over and a cloud of white smoke..I mean big time..ok i was upset..but I took the head off again cleaned both the block and head realy realy good. Get a new gasket and bolts again. Put it all back together..and again same thing. So I tried bars stop leak for heads.....it worked for maybe a day...so I tried once more...still no good...

I did note some symptoms though...If i take the radaitor cap off and leat the enormus amount of pressure..it runs ok still with smoke. Now if I shut the car off and fill up the radaitor...it won't start for about 4 min of crancking..and smoke...but once it turns over it will run. now while running i put more water in the rad. and engine bogs down..so I give it gas and it starts to overheat.
Finaly I have totaly removed the head from the vehicle no manifolds on it. It had a damn good seal on the head, had to push pretty hard for it to come off. So I think the gasket job was ok. Is my head cracked? I looked and didn't see any noticeable ones. The block seems to be holding the water and oil..Oh Yea the oil was milky bad....
If the intake gasket was leaking the water into the intake...would I have the same symptoms? I noticed a big build up of the bars stuff where the gasket and intake is suppost to cover one of the holes. Does water fill the head cavities of just have chambers in it? Because it looked like the water was in the chambers if you look frome the holes on the intake side.
I can get a used head for a 100 bucks or take my old to a machince shop for 30 bucks...should I just buy the head??
Any suggestions would be nice thanks

Sorry about the long post
Is there anyway to flush the block out while the head is off? I know I need to get that water out of the block.

[mightymoose_22]

Have you changed the oil?

If you had a leak it is very possible that there is a lot of water in your crankcase... which is a good reason you are seeing smoke. You may have repaired the leak, but you didn't remove the water.

If your oil is milky that is a good sign that there is coolant in there... if it was sitting for a long time with water in it you could have some other problems to worry about.

Yes, a leak on the intake gasket can get into the head. If the leak is between the coolant passage and the intake port... it just sucks it right in.

Another thought is that the head may be warped. If not torqued correctly it can lead to more problems. Maybe it doesn't seal as well as you think it does.

[stepheneking]

Yes I did change the oil. The coolant still comes out the tailpipe. I also torqued it correctly when I put it on. I am wondering if there is a crack in the head that is causing my problem. Should I get the used head and try it with all the new gaskets or should I take my old one to the machine shop? Anothere thing...I never saw the engine leak around the head...not water at all, even when it went out.

[KimMG]

Take your head to a machine shop and have them check it for cracks and to make sure it is not warped.

[stepheneking]

I want to save money of course. Maybe I should just buy the used head, I'm out 30 bucks just for them to look at it.If it has to be machined I will pay more. Kinda makes me mad the car ran soo good, purred like a kitten. I always changed all filters and fluids. Engine has 112000 on it.

[mightymoose_22]

Would suck to drop $100 into a new head and still have your problem.

Do you have any experience identifyiing small cracks in a head? If not, try and get a friend to take a look. Sometimes they are hard to see.

The only way coolany gets into the exhaust is through that head gasket or the intake ports.

Sounds like you had used some sort of adhesive when you put the head on before... just because it was glued down tight does not mean it was sitting flush. It could be warped. You said the engine has been overheating, so who knows.

If you opt for the new/used head, how do you know it is good? Are the valves in it any good? WIll it require machining or is it ready to mount? If it has some sort of warranty and you want to get everything over with then you should be able to swap things out ok... but I'd recommend trying to identify your problem instead of just hoping it goes away by swapping a head. Maybe the problem is with the block? Less likely, but possible.

Maybe if the machine shop tells you that your head is warped or cracked they will gie you a discount on any work the new head needs.

[KimMG]

The cost of machine shop services is part of the price for doing the job right. Taking short cuts can lead to higher costs. What kind of guarantee would you get with a used head? You would have to make sure the surface is correct and that there are no cracks in the used head. Did you replace the head studs? Did you use a straight edge and feeler guages to check the block?

[stepheneking]

Here is my plan of action now. I am going to take the old head to the machine shop on friday to see what they can find out. I am hopeing that they find out what is wrong. I have a slight feeling that it might have been the intake gasket leaking, probably not, but just a feeling. The guy that is going to sell me the used head garuntees that it will work. And no I haven't used a feeler to check the block. I did examine it pretty well and haven't discovered any problems there. Now I am pretty sure that the new gasket I put on the head was correctly installed. I saw no signs of leaking on the gasket. it was sealed realy good. I used no sealant on it when I installled it just the gasket some new head bolts and proper torque specs. I suppose when and if I get the used head I should have a machine shop look it over too. Thank you everyone for your input

[KimMG]

A straight edge and feeler guage is the only way to check the mating surface on the block for warpage. I don't know of anyone who can measure a gap of .003" by just looking at it.

[stepheneking]

You see you learn something everyday....I will have to check that out...I've heard your head is more liklely to warp than the block.

[KimMG]

That is true the head is most likely to distort. Places where usually the block distorts is between cylinders. I have seen this area as a low spot on many blocks, but usually within spec. I have never seen one where I could slide a .003" feeler guage between the straight edge and the block.

[mightymoose_22]

Leakage from the intake gasket is very possible... you couldn't tell by the condition of the gasket though?

Out of curiousity... just how fast was the system losing coolant? Was it a fast drain and constantly had to be refilled? How much water was in the oil?

Without looking, I am not certain how the coolant is routed through the head, but I suppose there is the possibility that the head could be cracked somewhere that you can't see... somewhere that is allowing coolant to escape. It doesn't necessarily have to be a crack on the mating surface... though that is usually the case.

I believe you mentioned the car was overheating... if it runs too hot, no telling what might go wrong.

[stepheneking]

No the car seemed to hold coolant in the radiator. It wasn't loosing it realy fast...the smoke would stop after a few min. I would still have to add water. I did notice on the intake manifold a bubble of the stop leak stuff in the center of the intake....wish I had a camera....also on the head you could tell it was leaking into the inside ports and there was build up aroung the bolts. It was running hot when I put some throttle to it but would cool back down on idle. Still lots of pressure in the radator though. Would you get the pressure when the intake gasket is bad? Also when it first went out it didn't overheat....and when I changed the H gasket the first time the first cyclinder had water in it, and the past two times changing it there was none...oil was just slightly milky. Thanks

[mightymoose_22]

Well maybe your maounting surfaces are ok. The water in the cylinder could be from a leak at the intake... but it also could have gotten in there if you didn't drain the block before you pulled the head. Some people pull the head and coolant drops right down in there.

Anyway... I wouldn't be surprised if the intake was sucking in the water. As for the pressure build up, I would suspect that is a result of the stop leak you added... probably plugged up the radiator.

[stepheneking]

So do you think I might be wasting my time, to just try and change the head, intake, exhaust gaskets? See if that fixes the problem. Or spend 30 bucks at a machine shop and maybe 150 for the head? I only paid like 35 bucks for all the gaskets?