1996 3.8 Ecu Programmer/ Data Link

[Salemetro]

I have a 1996 Firebird with the 3.8, and would like to have complete access to the tables in the ECU map. Does anyone know of a specific manufacturer that makes the interface/software for this application? I've been looking and calling various places for a few days now, and am not finding anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Salemetro]

C'mon......any help here?? Or, am I totally on my own?

[streetsurfinseth]

did you try gm or chevy
I own a 96 camaro 3.8
that im trying to do a motor swap in

[Salemetro]

No go....they use a Tech2 scan tool/programmer that only inputs pre-determined paramaters into the ecu. There are some minor adjustments that can be made, but definitely no way to custom tune the ecu. At least, that's what I have been told by the local GM dealer.

[Savage Messiah]

www.hptuners.com ??

[Salemetro]

HP TUNERS does not support the 1996 3.8 ecm. However, I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that a 1997 3.8 ecm from a Bonneville/Camaro/Firebird is a direct fit/upgrade for the 1996 3.8 ecm. Can anyone verify this? I just so happen to have a 1997 ecm sitting in my shop. If so, I SHOULD be able to use the HP tuners software for that ecu! Any ideas here????

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Salemetro

I have a 1996 Firebird with the 3.8, and would like to have complete access to the tables in the ECU map. Does anyone know of a specific manufacturer that makes the interface/software for this application? I've been looking and calling various places for a few days now, and am not finding anything. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Are you just wanting to read it or tamper with it?
If you are trying to tamper with it better read this,

http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa203.txt


Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
(1) in the case of a manufacturer of new motor vehicles or
new motor vehicle engines for distribution in commerce, the
sale, or the offering for sale, or the introduction, or
delivery for introduction, into commerce, or (in the case of
any person, except as provided by regulation of the Adminis-
trator), the importation into the United States, of any new
motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine, manufactured
after the effective date of regulations under this part
which are applicable to such vehicle or engine unless such
vehicle or engine is covered by a certificate of conformity
issued (and in effect) under regulations prescribed under
this part or part C in the case of clean-fuel vehicles
(except as provided in subsection (b));
(2)(A) for any person to fail or refuse to permit access
to or copying of records or to fail to make reports or
provide information required under section 208;
(B) for any person to fail or refuse to permit entry,
testing or inspection authorized under section 206(c) or
section 208;
(C) for any person to fail or refuse to perform tests, or
have tests performed as required under section 208;
(D) for any manufacturer to fail to make information
available as provided by regulation under section 202(m)(5);
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use; or
(4) for any manufacturer of a new motor vehicle or new
motor vehicle engine subject to standards prescribed under
section 202 or Part C-
(A) to sell or lease any such vehicle or engine
unless such manufacturer has complied with (i) the
requirements of section 207 (a) and (b) with respect to
such vehicle or engine, and unless a label or tag is
affixed to such vehicle or engine in accordance with
section 207(c)(3), or (ii) the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel
vehicles unless the manufacturer has complied with the
corresponding requirements of part C
(B) to fail or refuse to comply with the requirements
of section 207 (c) or (e), or the corresponding
requirements of part C in the case of clean fuel
vehicles
(C) except as provided in subsection (c)(3) of
section 207 and the corresponding requirements of part
C in the case of clean fuel vehicles, to provide
directly or indirectly in any communication to the
ultimate purchaser or any subsequent purchaser that the
coverage of any warranty under this Act is conditioned
upon use of any part, component, or system manufactured
by such manufacturer or any person acting for such
manufacturer or under his control, or conditioned upon
service performed by any such person, or
(D) to fail or refuse to comply with the terms and
conditions of the warranty under section 207 (a) or (b)
or the corresponding requirements of part C in the case
of clean fuel vehicles with respect to any vehicle; or
(5) for any person to violate section 218, 219, or part C
of this title or any regulations under section 218, 219, or
part C.
No action with respect to any element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) (including any adjustment or alteration of such
element) shall be treated as a prohibited act under such
paragraph (3) if such action is in accordance with section 215.
Nothing in paragraph (3) shall be construed to require the use
ofmanufacturer parts in maintaining or repairing any motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine. For the purposes of the
preceding sentence, the term "manufacturer parts" means, with
respect to a motor vehicle engine, parts produced or sold by the
manufacturer of the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine. No
action with respect to any device or element of design referred
to in paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under
that paragraph if (i) the action is for the purpose of repair or
replacement of the device or element, or is a necessary and
temporary procedure to repair or replace any other item and the
device or element is replaced upon completion of the procedure,
and (ii) such action thereafter results in the proper functioning
of the device or element referred to in paragraph (3). No action
with respect to any device or element of design referred to in
paragraph (3) shall be treated as a prohibited act under that
paragraph if the action is for the purpose of a conversion of a
motor vehicle for use of a clean alternative fuel (as defined in
this title) and if such vehicle complies with the applicable
standard under section 202 when operating on such fuel, and if in
the case of a clean alternative fuel vehicle (as defined by rule
by the Administrator), the device or element is replaced upon
completion of the conversion procedure and such action results in
proper functioning of the device or element when the motor
vehicle operates on conventional fuel.
(b)(1) The Administrator may exempt any new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine from subsection (a), upon such terms and
conditions as he may find necessary for the purpose of research,
investigations, studies, demonstrations, or training, or for
reasons of national security.
(2) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine offered for
importation or imported by any person in violation of subsection
(a) shall be refused admission into the United States, but the
Secretary of the Treasury and the Administrator may, by joint
regulation, provide for deferring final determination as to
admission and authorizing the delivery of such a motor vehicle or
engine offered for import to the owner or consignee thereof upon
such terms and conditions (including the furnishing of a bond) as
may appear to them appropriate to insure that any such motor
vehicle or engine will be brought into conformity with the
standards, requirements, and limitations applicable to it under
this part. The Secretary of the Treasury shall, if a motor
vehicle or engine is finally refused admission under this
paragraph, cause disposition thereof in accordance with the
customs laws unless it is exported, under regulations prescribed
by such Secretary, within ninety days of the date of notice of
such refusal or such additional time as may be permitted pursuant
to such regulations, except that disposition in accordance with
the customs laws may
not be made in such manner as may result, directly or indirectly,
in the sale, to the ultimate consumer, of a new motor vehicle or
new motor vehicle engine that fails to comply with applicable
standards of the Administrator under this part.
(3) A new motor vehicle or new motor vehicle engine intended
solely for export, and so labeled or tagged on the outside of the
container and on the vehicle or engine itself, shall be subject
to the provisions of subsection (a), except that if the country
which is to receive such vehicle or engine has emission standards
which differ from the standards prescribed under section 202,
then such vehicle or engine shall comply with the standards of
such country which is to receive such vehicle or engine.
[42 U.S.C. 7522]




http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa203.txt

SEC. 205. CIVIL PENALTIES.
(a) Violations.- Any person who violates sections 203(a)(1),
203(a)(4), or 203(a)(5) or any manufacturer or dealer who
violates section 203(a)(3)(A) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $25,000. Any person otherthan a manufacturer or
dealer who violates section 203(a)(3)(A) or any person who
violates section 203(a)(3)(B) shall be subject to a civil penalty
of not more than $2,500. Any such violation with respect to
paragraph (1),(3)(A), or (4) of section 203(a) shall constitute a
separate offense with respect to each motor vehicle or motor
vehicle engine. Any such violation with respect to section
203(a)(3)(B) shall constitute a separate offense with respect to
each part or component. Any person who violates section 203(a)(2)
shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $25,000 per
day of violation.
(b) Civil Actions.- The Administrator may commence a civil
action to assess and recover any civil penalty under subsection
(a) of this section, section 211(d), or section 213(d). Any
action under this subsection may be brought in the district court
of the United States for the district in which the violation is
alleged to have occurred or in which the defendant resides or has
the Administrator's principal place of business, and the court
shall have jurisdiction to assess a civil penalty. In determining
the amount of any civil penalty to be assessed under this
subsection, the court shall take into account the gravity of the
violation, the economic benefit or savings (if any) resulting
from the violation, the size of the violator's business, the
violator's history of compliance with this title, action taken to
remedy the violation, the effect of the penalty on the violator's
ability to continue in business, and such other matters as
justice may require. In any such action, subpoenas for witnesses
who are
required to attend a district court in any district may run into
any other district.
(c) Administrative Assessment of Certain Penalties.-
(1) Administrative penalty authority.- In lieu of
commencing a civil action under subsection (b), the
Administrator may assess any civil penalty prescribed in
subsection (a) of this section, section 211(d), or section
213(d), except that the maximum amount of penalty sought
against each violator in a penalty assessment proceeding
shall not exceed $200,000, unless the Administrator and
the Attorney General jointly determine that a matter
involving a larger penalty amount is appropriate for
administrative penalty assessment. Any such determination
by the Administrator and the Attorney General shall not be
subject to judicial review. Assessment of a civil penalty
under this subsection shall be by an order made on the
record after opportunity for a hearing in accordance with
sections 554 and 556 of title 5 of the United States Code.
The Administrator shall issue reasonable rules for
discovery and other procedures for hearings under this
paragraph. Before issuing such an order, the Administrator
shall give written notice to the person to be assessed an
administrative penalty of the Administrator's proposal to
issue such order and provide such person an opportunity to
request such a hearing on the order, within 30 days of the
date the notice is received by such person. The
Administrator may compromise, or remit, with or without
conditions, any administrative penalty which may be
imposed under this section.
(2) Determining amount.- In determining the amount of
any civil penalty assessed under this subsection, the
Administrator shall take into account the gravity of the
violation, the economic benefit or savings (if any)
resulting from the violation, the size of the violator's
business, the violator's history of compliance with this
title, action taken to remedy the violation, the effect of
the penalty on the violator's ability to continue in
business, and such other matters as justice may require.
(3) Effect of administrator's action.- (A) Action by
the Administrator under this subsection shall not affect
or limit the Administrator's authority to enforce any
provision of this Act; except that any violation,
(i) with respect to which the Administrator has
commenced and is diligently prosecuting an action
under this subsection, or
(ii) for which the Administrator has issued a
final order not subject to further judicial review
and the violator has paid a penalty assessment under
this subsection,
shall not be the subject of civil penalty action under
subsection (b).
(B) No action by the Administrator under this
subsection shall affect any person's obligation to comply
with any section of this Act.
(4) Finality of order.- An order issued under this
subsection shall become final 30 days after its issuance
unless a petition for judicial review is filed under
paragraph (5).
(5) Judicial review.- Any person against whom a civil
penalty is assessed in accordance with this subsection may
seek review of the assessment in the United States District
Court for the District of Columbia, or for the district in
which the violation is alleged to have occurred, in which
such person resides, or where such person's principal place
of business is located, within the 30-day period beginning
on the date a civil penalty order is issued. Such person
shall simultaneously send a copy of the filing by certified
mail to the Administrator and the Attorney General. The
Administrator shall file in the court a certified copy, or
certified index, as appropriate, of the record on which the
order was issued within 30 days. The court shall not set
aside or remand any order issued in accordance with the
requirements of this subsection unless there is not
substantial evidence in the record, taken as a whole, to
support the finding of a violation or unless the
Administrator's assessment of the penalty constitutes an
abuse of discretion, and the court shall not impose
additional civil penalties unless the Administrator's
assessment of the penalty constitutes an abuse of
discretion. In any proceedings, the United States may seek
to recover civil penalties assessed under this section.
(6) Collection.- If any person fails to pay an assessment
of a civil penalty imposed by the Administrator as provided
in this subsection-
(A) after the order making the assessment has become
final, or
(B) after a court in an action brought under
paragraph (5) has entered a final judgment in favor of
the Administrator,
the Administrator shall request the Attorney General to
bring a civil action in an appropriate district court to
recover the amount assessed (plus interest at rates
established pursuant to section 6621(a)(2) of the Internal
Revenue Code of 1986 from the date of the final order or the
date of the final judgment, as the case may be). In such an
action, the validity, amount, and appropriateness of the
penalty shall not be subject to review. Any person who fails
to pay on a timely basis the amount of an assessment of a
civil penalty as described in the first sentence of this
paragraph shall be required to pay, in addition to that
amount and interest, the United States' enforcement
expenses, including attorneys fees and costs for collection
proceedings, and a quarterly nonpayment penalty for each
quarter during which such failure to pay persists. The
nonpayment penalty shall be in an amount equal to 10 percent
of the aggregate amount of that person's penalties and
nonpayment penalties which are unpaid as of the beginning of
such quarter.
[42 U.S.C. 7524]

[Salemetro]

MT-2500,

If I am understanding all of this correctly, then what you posted only applies to a situation such as a) I have to pass deq tests/inspections, or B) I plan on selling the vehicle. If this is correct, then neither applies to my situation. Am I understanding correctly here? Thanks.

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by Salemetro

MT-2500,

If I am understanding all of this correctly, then what you posted only applies to a situation such as a) I have to pass deq tests/inspections, or B) I plan on selling the vehicle. If this is correct, then neither applies to my situation. Am I understanding correctly here? Thanks.

If it is operated on a federal highway the 1990 epa clean air act and rules apply.
State and city emmisions have there own rules and regulations.
MT

[Salemetro]

I (like thousands of others) am not too worried about the EPA coming down on me. Especially since, when tuned, the car will more-than-likely pass emmisions just fine. However, that's not an issue in my case. So, being that as it may....I will again ask the question:

Does anyone know of any way that I can modify the fuel maps in my 1996 Firebird ECU? I have entertained the thought of a "piggy-back" controller, but would prefer a more "OEM-clean" type of solution. In other words, I really don't want to hack into the factory harness unless absolutely necessary.

Thanks.

[Salemetro]

I FINALLY found the answer to 3.8 ECU programming problems! For the 1996 year, upgrade to a 1997 ecu...and use this cool set of toos from DHP. Here's the link for those that wish to really tune their 3.8.

http://www.3800performance.com/Merch...roduct_Count=0