Pinging and poor milage; no codes

[cabron1]

Need you help.

We have a 2000 Windstar; bought new; kept all maintenance up to date. It has 130,000 km ( about 81,200 miles ). I have changed plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, oil synthetic , tranny fluid, and coolant. All of this was done over the past 6 months and with OEM parts.

I have had poor gas milage for about 2 years now. I get 18 to 20 on the highway. I also get pinging when crusiing at highway speeds. My driving style is easy. I have noticed that when I burn Super gas, the pinging goes away; but the gas milage gets worse.

I need your help.

Thx

[TaurusKing]

First thing I would do is test the compression in each cylinder and see what you're getting, possibly carbon deposits could raise the compression enough to cause pinging, especially if you drive easily, as you call it.. however I believe with the newer cars, 86 and newer, it's actually tough not to be easy on the engine,especially with the auto trans, which is programmed to shift up at the earliest point, you know torque converter lockup and then right into overdrive, people say drive harder, it's damn near impossible with today's automatic transmissions... if the car is pinging, it's not producing usable power from that, could contribute to lower mpg.. egr system could be also carboned up, some of the passages in the intake manifold are quite small and susceptible to plugging up.. there is a way to test the flow of your egr system with a voltmeter, which would give you a good idea of how it's working, I've done it on my Taurus, but not sure if the same procedure would apply to your motor.. basically pinging is caused by one or more pof the following, too much heat, too high compression, low octane fuel, which by the way is hard to come by, I believe most fuels test out to more then their respective octane level, though not always by much,,, also advanced timing could be an issue, although timing is controlled by the engine control system, you can't adjust it.. it's possible there may be carbon deposits, not enough to raise compression significantly, but these deposits can retain heat, read hot, and cause pre-ignition, pinging... you could try a de-carboning process, there are several, your Ford dealer probably has one..

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by cabron1

Need you help.

We have a 2000 Windstar; bought new; kept all maintenance up to date. It has 130,000 km ( about 81,200 miles ). I have changed plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, oil synthetic , tranny fluid, and coolant. All of this was done over the past 6 months and with OEM parts.

I have had poor gas milage for about 2 years now. I get 18 to 20 on the highway. I also get pinging when crusiing at highway speeds. My driving style is easy. I have noticed that when I burn Super gas, the pinging goes away; but the gas milage gets worse.

I need your help.

Thx

Lean fuel mix or egr valve problems are the main cause off engine ping.
Is the egr valve working?
MT

[phil-l]

I had the same kind of symptoms on my 2000 Windstar LX 3.8: pinging but no codes.

Have you had the infamous isolator bolt fix performed? This is a very common problem on this engine. Search this forum for the leckemby.net procedure write-up; it's very useful - and makes this job a reasonable DIY project. Pinging was gone after I did it; van has run great since then.

Also note that the DPFE sensor tends to fail at about this mileage (mine failed about a month after I completed the isolator bolt fix; I know of others who have had the same thing happen). The sensor is reasonably priced and easy to replace.

[cabron1]

Originally Posted by MT-2500

Lean fuel mix or egr valve problems are the main cause off engine ping.
Is the egr valve working?
MT

How do I check if the EGR valve is working?

Thanks

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by cabron1

How do I check if the EGR valve is working?

Thanks

The best check is to get it on a engine capable scanner.
Check for codes and read out egr valve data.
If you get any codes post back code no.
MT

[wiswind]

The site for the isolator bolt TSB is
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html

The problems that you describe sound just like others have reported as the early stages of the problems caused by the isolator bolts.
The oil that gets into the upper intake manifold deteriate the isolators on the bolts that hold the upper intake manifold to the lower intake manifold.
This causes a vaccum leak....which will drive the computer control of the engine all over the place.
Pinging and poor fuel economy seem to be the first sign of problems.....
Then, eventually the vaccum leak will be bad enough to light the Check Engine Light (CEL) and give you codes P0171 and / or P0174, which are the classic codes for a vaccum leak.

The new bolts (from the dealership) have isolators made from a different material, that can hold up to oil better.
So you should only have to do this TSB 1 time.

[carlos80]

Originally Posted by cabron1

Need you help.

We have a 2000 Windstar; bought new; kept all maintenance up to date. It has 130,000 km ( about 81,200 miles ). I have changed plugs, wires, fuel filter, air filter, oil synthetic , tranny fluid, and coolant. All of this was done over the past 6 months and with OEM parts.

I have had poor gas milage for about 2 years now. I get 18 to 20 on the highway. I also get pinging when crusiing at highway speeds. My driving style is easy. I have noticed that when I burn Super gas, the pinging goes away; but the gas milage gets worse.

I need your help.

Thx

a good way to check for egr valve flow it to place a vac. pump on the valve itself and apply vaccum at idle the engine should stumble which will tell you that the valve and passages to the intake are ok, remeber the valve should also hold vaccum. as far as testing it while driving you can tee in a vac gauge with enough hose to be able to run the gauge inside as you reach higher speeds you should see the solenoid applying vac. these are some ways to test the egr valve without a scanner. with a scanner you should see the dpfegr sensor read 1.0v at idle and gradually increase to about 4.5v as as you reach higher speeds.
for your problem i would recommend an engine decarb which you can do yourself by runing either water, trans fluid, or marvel mystery oil through a small intake vac line(the one for the fuel regulator s good) with the engine at full operating temp. you can also get octane reprogramming where 2 degrees of spark timing can be pulled out, this can be done at any ford dealer.

[Winny_the_Pooh]

I would take Wiswind's advice on the isolator bolt fix. This is a common problem with the Windstar and has come up over and over. The vacuum leak allows unmetered air to enter the system which results in a lean fuel condition and pinging. If it were any other vehicle but a Windstar, the common cause of lean fuel and pinging is a poor MAF signal but, for the Windstar, it has a rich history of vacuum leaks caused by the degredation of the isolator bolts.

There have been alot of reports of success using Seafoam to perform the de-carbonization/claning of the intakes and combustion chambers.

[WindstarProphet]

There are some TSBs regarding your problem. It is urgend to go to Ford and let them performe an "Engine Octane Adjustment" (see TSB 02-2403 and TSB 04-19-2) otherwise your engine will die!