How do you know if you have a "lemon"?

[zachzchw]

After reading through this forum, it seems as though I have way more than my fair share of problems with my 1997. Its actually a Bravada, but you know thats the same as a Blazer.
I bought the truck in November of 2004, with 72,000 miles on it. I now have 104,000 on it. Heres a list of what I have replaced:

u joints
alternator
starter
all 4 ball joints
serpentine belt
pitman arm
idler arm
one wheel hub assembly
door jamb switch
both front door pins/bushings
shocks
rear wiper line leaked all over
both side view mirrors

I keep up with regular maintenance, as well.
Current problems that need attention:

washer fluid tank leaks (cant figure out where its from)
loud pop in front end (thinking its ball joints again, they were just replaced in January)
interior rattles horribly
intermittent "check engine light"
rides horribly (new shocks, new tires, new alignment, greased leaf springs)
electrical problem (briefly lost most of my electrical devices, thinking its ignition switch)
oil cooler lines need replaced

Does this all seem run of the mill, or am I really having more problems than I should expect out of this thing?

[BlazinMlew]

I am not sure what the rules are on lemon laws. I do know however my Mom's 03 or 04 ZR2 got labled a "lemon" after numerous attempts to fix a leaky oil pan. Come to find out it was actually the block that was warped on the oil pan lines. Just a factory defect, nothing caused by negligence. After a lengthy battle with Chevy, she finally won the battle. Chevy paid off the first ZR2 and replaced it with a newer model. She of course had to pay the difference of about 5 grand but still... not to shabby.


So just know that it's not just a cut and dry case. It will have to go through all the nessesary steps and if you are lucky you will win. So good luck. Fight the Power!!! lol

[zachzchw]

Im sure theres some specific length of time to file a "lemon" claim, in hopes of getting it taken care of by the company. Id bet that Im out of that time frame, since the truck is 10 years old.

I just mainly want to know if this is normal, or if I seem to have more trouble than other people.

[mike2004tct]

Originally Posted by zachzchw

Im sure theres some specific length of time to file a "lemon" claim, in hopes of getting it taken care of by the company. Id bet that Im out of that time frame, since the truck is 10 years old.

I just mainly want to know if this is normal, or if I seem to have more trouble than other people.

7yrs is the extent of liability laws relating to lemon laws (It also has to do with a major problem like the transmission failing 3 times), but I know this isn't what you're asking.

I've owned my '97 Blazer since new, Oct. '96. My wife calls it a lemon because of all the problems I've had the last 3 years with the ign. switch,fuel pump, and the ECM going, leaving her stranded twice (BIG towing bills), but none of them were the same problem. I currently have 52,000 miles on it.
Here's a partial list of stuff that went south;
Oil cool lines replaced within 1st year under warranty, need a new set again,replaced the ECM, Ignition switch, fuel pump 2 times, upper and lower ball joints at 15,000 miles (upper were a recall, bottoms were rerplaced at same time) drivers seat belt (recall), driver door mirror re-wired (recall), wiper pulse board, thermostat gave out at 20k/5yr mark, DEXCOOL gunked up at 5 year mark (right at recommended replacement point), 3rd set of front pads. Only replaced the serp belt once so far.
The u-joints are on there way out, Not to mention all the rattles and squeaks this thing has developed recently.
It looks great still, but sounds terrible when taking off from a stand still.

So yeah, I'd say your problems are normal.

[DelCoch]

No you don't have a lemon - you have a Blazer, which after reaching 10 years in age I think they all turn into lemons.

Read through the posts on this board and the Jimmy board and you will find a lot of people are having the same problems you're having, regardless of the vehicle year. So, I would say your problems are par for the course.

[zachzchw]

Originally Posted by DelCoch

No you don't have a lemon - you have a Blazer, which after reaching 10 years in age I think they all turn into lemons.

Read through the posts on this board and the Jimmy board and you will find a lot of people are having the same problems you're having, regardless of the vehicle year. So, I would say your problems are par for the course.

In that case, I guess GM just turned out a worthless product.

[Blue Bowtie]

How do you know if you have a "lemon"?

If you can add water and sugar, then sell it for 5¢ a glass on a hot day, you have a lemon.

You purchased a seven-year-old used vehicle with 72,000 miles on it. You really have no idea how the vehicle was used and maintained before you acquired it. I doubt that any state's "Lemon Laws" would apply to a vehicle with that age and mileage. There is a good chance that the
previous owner(s) did not know how to read and understand the owner's manual, and just drove it without performing any of the required periodic maintenance.

By your own desription, it would seem that most if not all the items with which you have experience problems could be due to neglect and abuse.

u joints
alternator
starter
all 4 ball joints
serpentine belt
pitman arm
idler arm
one wheel hub assembly
door jamb switch
both front door pins/bushings
shocks
rear wiper line leaked all over
both side view mirrors

The items in RED are liekly due to inadequate routine maintenance and lubrication (7,500 mile intervals).

The items in BLUE are likely normal wear items for a 7 year old vehicle.

The items in GREEN could be due to abuse or general neglect.

That would leave an alternator falure, starter failure, and leaking hose to the rear window washer as problems after 7 years or more. Even the starter could be normal wear, if the vehicle is/was subject to a lot of short trips, and the alternator failure could have resulted from whatever caused the belt to fail, since low alternator RPM will cause serious alternator overheating. Ignoring those problems only makes things worse. The previous owner probably did the truck the best favor by getting rid of it, since it wouldn't survive much longer with that kind of sustained neglect.

I keep up with regular maintenance, as well.
Current problems that need attention:

washer fluid tank leaks (cant figure out where its from)
loud pop in front end (thinking its ball joints again, they were just replaced in January)
interior rattles horribly
intermittent "check engine light"
rides horribly (new shocks, new tires, new alignment, greased leaf springs)
electrical problem (briefly lost most of my electrical devices, thinking its ignition switch)
oil cooler lines need replaced

If you really want to maintain the vehicle, address these problem in order of priority.

the oil cooler lines are a priority. Running out of oil, or mixing coolant into the oil at a leaking oil cooler will "solve" your problems all at once as they tow the truck to the junk yard. Don't wait too long.

The Check Engine" lamp is the next priority. The vehicle PCM is TRYING to tell you that something is wrong. It can't fix the problem for you. All you have to do is listen to the PCM and heed its warning.

The "electrical problem" would be the next priority, and may be related to both the "Check Engine" lamp and some of the interior rattles.

The washer fluid tank leak could very well also be due to neglect or ignorance. In 40 years I can't remember EVER having a washer tank fail unless it was in an accident. If the previous owner filled the reservoir with an inadequate solution concentration and the reservoir froze, that certainly can't be blamed on the design. I'll retract that previous statement - I did have a failure on a '67 Mustang. It had that stupid plastic bag for a reservoir that Ford thought was a "better idea" until they became more educated.

The ride quality "problem" is a function of the vehicle design, your selection of tires, shocks, and how/where you drive it. It's not a Cadillac CTS, it's a TRUCK. If you've decided to install larger diameter tires or those with a stiffer sidewall, heavy duty shocks, and now ride at a higher apex of the triangle formed by the axles and the driver seat, you're definitely going to feel more road variation and bumps. That's less of a quality issue than a choice issue.

[muddog321]

Sorry I have 4 of these 98 up and all have had many of these so they are normal for the Blazer/Jimmy/Bravada series and you have a full time 4wd so that transfer case better have the fluid changed and make sure it the Autotrak II blue syn fluid (for all with auto or full time 4wd). You are due for the lower intake gasket going soon too! That clunk could be the simple add a cone washer to the hood bolts where they pivot GM# 12383460 need 2. Try keeping 4 of these going - parts guys all know my first name at several stores and dealer and thats not a good thing!

[blazes9395]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

If you can add water and sugar, then sell it for 5¢ a glass on a hot day, you have a lemon.

You purchased a seven-year-old used vehicle with 72,000 miles on it. You really have no idea how the vehicle was used and maintained before you acquired it. I doubt that any state's "Lemon Laws" would apply to a vehicle with that age and mileage. There is a good chance that the
previous owner(s) did not know how to read and understand the owner's manual, and just drove it without performing any of the required periodic maintenance.

By your own desription, it would seem that most if not all the items with which you have experience problems could be due to neglect and abuse.


The ride quality "problem" is a function of the vehicle design, your selection of tires, shocks, and how/where you drive it. It's not a Cadillac CTS, it's a TRUCK. If you've decided to install larger diameter tires or those with a stiffer sidewall, heavy duty shocks, and now ride at a higher apex of the triangle formed by the axles and the driver seat, you're definitely going to feel more road variation and bumps. That's less of a quality issue than a choice issue.

I agree. I don't want to seem to harsh, but you are dealing with a nine year old truck, and you are not the the first owner, so there are many variables with maintenance, the way it was driven, etc,etc. Besides, all the components you stated are very common to these trucks, and probably many other vehicles with that age.

[zachzchw]

Okay, so hopefully once I get these issues taken care of, itll be trouble free for a while.

On the ride quality issue, I know its never going to ride like a luxury sedan....I guess I should have said the ride quality is not nearly as good as it was when I first got it. I would have thought that the new shocks and tires would improve ride quality, not take away from it.

[Blue Bowtie]

Again, if you installed "heavy duty" shocks, they usually have an oversized piston and very tight valving. Other things which can contribute to a harsher ride are suspension bushing which are either hardening or torn and allowing metal contact between suspension members. Lifting springs can also create a harsher ride if they don;t have the same rate as th original springs. Even old, worn springs can allow suspension travel to bottom on the jounce bumpers, causing a harsh ride. And even the tire selection can affect ride quality. Some "light truck" tires have a much stiffer sidewall and allow less flexing than others. Oversized tires simply amplify the harsh ride.

Do you know if the alignment is correct? Excessive camber can even lead to "porpoising" - a condition where the vehicle just develops a harmonic oscillation and bounce while traveling along even glass-smooth pavement.

[zachzchw]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

Again, if you installed "heavy duty" shocks, they usually have an oversized piston and very tight valving. Other things which can contribute to a harsher ride are suspension bushing which are either hardening or torn and allowing metal contact between suspension members. Lifting springs can also create a harsher ride if they don;t have the same rate as th original springs. Even old, worn springs can allow suspension travel to bottom on the jounce bumpers, causing a harsh ride. And even the tire selection can affect ride quality. Some "light truck" tires have a much stiffer sidewall and allow less flexing than others. Oversized tires simply amplify the harsh ride.

Do you know if the alignment is correct? Excessive camber can even lead to "porpoising" - a condition where the vehicle just develops a harmonic oscillation and bounce while traveling along even glass-smooth pavement.

Alignment was done when I got new tires, about two months ago.
Tires are Daytona Quadra LTE. This is a product description:
"S-speed & T-speed ratings
Extra durability
Solid center rib with optimized shoulder element angle and shape
Quiet ride
Wide flow-through grooves
Good wet performance
Diagonal and lateral siping
Wet and snow traction
Attractive serrated band
Complements car's good looks
Two raised white letter sizes
Fit many of today's pickups and sport utility vehicles
Polyester cord body
Smooth, comfortable ride
Two steel belts
Provide extra strength."

Shocks are Gabriel Pro Guard, supposedly designed for comfort and smooth ride. They do say "Larger diameter piston delivers better-than-OE response and performance"......Theres a lifetime warranty on them, should I take them off and get something different?
What all bushings should I replace?

Id just hate to replace all this stuff, for no improvement.

[Blue Bowtie]

I'd agree. There is no need to replace things which are in good condition. You can get under the vehicle and inspect the lower control arm bushings, body mount bushings, rear spring bushings, and any rear control arm bushings.

The heavy-duty shocks are probably not helping for a smooth ride, but it seems a shame to replace relatively new shocks.

The tires themselves, although described as providing a "Smooth, comfortable ride" may be stiffer than the originals. The Bridgeston/Firestone/Dayton tires (all the same company) seem to have harer rubber compounds in their LT tires than the passenger car tires (indicated by the treadwear ratings). If the vehicle had a relatively soft set of tires originally, like Uniroyal "Paws" or Goodrich "Control TAs," the new ride would be substantially firmer.

[zachzchw]

Originally Posted by Blue Bowtie

I'd agree. There is no need to replace things which are in good condition. You can get under the vehicle and inspect the lower control arm bushings, body mount bushings, rear spring bushings, and any rear control arm bushings.

The heavy-duty shocks are probably not helping for a smooth ride, but it seems a shame to replace relatively new shocks.

The tires themselves, although described as providing a "Smooth, comfortable ride" may be stiffer than the originals. The Bridgeston/Firestone/Dayton tires (all the same company) seem to have harer rubber compounds in their LT tires than the passenger car tires (indicated by the treadwear ratings). If the vehicle had a relatively soft set of tires originally, like Uniroyal "Paws" or Goodrich "Control TAs," the new ride would be substantially firmer.

Previous tires were Michelin LTX (I think). Me and my father in law can do the labor part of shock replacement, and I can return them for the money back, so the only cost would be the difference in price for better shocks.

Where should I start? Different shocks, along with an inspection of the bushings? Is it safe to assume that the bushings should probably be replaced, given their age?

[Blue Bowtie]

You really need to inspect them. They normally last the life of a vehicle, but can fail depending upon use and exposure to chemicals, abrasive grime, salt, temperature extremes, etc.