1996 2.2L cooling system

[rum runner]

I just recently purchased a gallon of Toyota antifreeze and distilled water to replace my coolant at 144k miles. I have heard that Toyota hoses last a considerable amount of time. Can anyone confirm this? I realize a 2.2L engine does not produce the engine heat of larger engines...... I can’t tell if the radiator hoses are original, the markings show EPDM. The heater hoses look original. Are there any weak spots in the cooling system design of the 2.2L? Any comments are appreciated.

RR

[idmetro]

rum runner;
unless you are seriously strapped for cash why not just replace the hoses and then you will have the security of knowing you won't be stuck alongside the road with an overheated vehicle - possible warped head or worse yet destroyed engine....

[RIP]

I've used many brands of hoses over the years both OEM and aftermarket. Never had a problem with any of them. Might as well save money and buy the aftermarket hoses. Just change the hoses every 3-4 years and you can't go wrong. Don't forget the little bypass hose and the heater hoses and the thermostat.

I've had a 94 with the 2.2 for 8 years now. No week spots I know of. Regular maintenance is the key.

[rum runner]

Thanks for your opinion, I think I will change the hoses with aftermarket parts. The gallon of Toyota antifreeze was $19.81 before tax..... yikes

[Brian R.]

The weak spot in the cooling system is the water pump. Change it every time you change the timing belt without fail. Mine lasted 75K and was not in good shape when I changed it. I thought the rattling noise I heard when the engine was cold was the water pump and I was right.

[RIP]

Time to be a fly in the pudding again. I've got two Camrys. A 94 with 150K miles and an 87 with 240K miles. Between the two I've changed the timing belt 4 times. I've never changed a water pump on either and both have their original pumps. Yes, many say to change the pump with the timing belt. I've found it's not necessary. Will I eat those words one day? Maybe. For now it works for me. Just passing along a little chunck of experience.

[Brian R.]

No argument here. Everyone will have their own problems and experiences.

One fact that remains is that your water pump has a resonable chance of being bad anytime (being a mechanical gadget with a pressure seal) and they will be more likely to die after you install a new timing belt since the load on the shaft will be different after the belt has been replaced. Nothing says they will die, but IMO there is no percentage on waiting until they die since the overall difference in the cost of replacing the pump is more than 5X if you replace it by itself, rather than couple the replacement with the timing belt R&R.

Also, if you don't have the pump changed with the belt automatically, you are betting that your mechanic will spot a bad pump and tell you about it. There is not alot of room to see the pump between the engine compartment and the engine. He may just feel the shaft and say that it's good without actually looking at the seal to see if there is any sign of a leak.

Just giving my logic. Water pumps are cheap if you change them along with the belt (the same goes for the cam and crank seals). Not if they are the only repair needed. The difference is between a $80 water pump and a $450 water pump (or 30 min vs a long time if you do it yourself); and that's on a relatively easy to repair 5S-FE.

[Toysrme]

It depends on the schedule & the maintenance.
If you're doing the 90,000m schedule, you should always change the pump. If you're going by the old 60,000m schedule... You can every other change.


The reason Toyota water pumps are not known to fail, is because no Toyota, or Lexus dealer will change a timing belt without changing the pump. Most Ex-Toyota/Lexus mechanics won't do it either.
The simple fact is that 99% of the population sucks, does no maintenance other than the oil changes, and the entire cooling system on most cars is ungodly neglected.

If you can't verrify, without reservation that you've done coolant FLUSHES, and parts changes on schedule. The water pump should be ditched.
The pump is lubricated by the coolant, the seals are constantly attacked by it, and the pump vanes are continually exposed to the coolant. Which eats the vanes off.

[RIP]

Yup, can't argue with either of you. My view is from the perspective of someone who has the time and motivation and tools to do 90% of his own maintenance. It helps to own 4 cars too. (Plenty of spares around). I know the signs of a failing water pump so I would know what to do if that ever happenes. My only cost would be the pump. The labor is fun time for me. I realise many don't have these advantages. Changing the pump with the TB change would be their best course of action.

A philosophy I try to follow is to try to get the most out of everything. This stems from my hatred for the throw away society we live in. "If it breaks, just throw it away and buy a new one. It's the American way". Our overflowing garbage dumps and toxic waste problems are one result. When it comes to car maintenance, many parts must get changed regardless. Others have that potential to keep fuctioning regardless. Those are the parts I tend to stretch to their limits. Now when my pump goes tomorrow, I'll eat these words for you. Cheers!

[Brian R.]

One of the things to consider about replacing this type of part is the type of driving you do. If your daily commute is less than 5 miles and you always have somewhere to park and get a tow if you overheat, or if your timing belt breaks, then you have little to worry about except some inconvenience. If you commute from Tucson to somewhere out of the normal beaten path every day in the summer and you have a chance of not being found if your engine dies, then there is good reason for this type of preventive maintenance.

[2000izusu]

hello,
i have had mixed experiences with the 2.2 water pumps

i had a 92 le that made it to 140,000miles and seized up. put a reman aftermarket on it and the waterpump made it till i sold it with 220,000 miles on it.

now my wife currently has a 95 camry with the 2.2. the factory water pump almost seized but did cause the timing belt to jump at 90,000 miles. had a dealer put a oem toyota water pump back on it and it started dumping mass amounts of coolant out the weep hole at 140,000. so it is on its third water pump now which is a napa reman.

if you do choose the reman route the good thing is you are recycling because not many parts go to the dump (mostly the bearings and the seal, shaft if needed) just make sure you get a quality reman!

so i have had two different experiences with the 2.2 water pump. one lasting a long time 140,000 and another going out at 90,000 miles and another going out at 50,000 miles. i think it is the luck of the draw. i will say however if the car is still in real nice shape i will go and replace the water pump with the timingbelt, but if the car is a beater i will push the parts as far as i can! also i do my own work about 50% of the time, that is if i am not busy with work! thanks for letting me share! mike

[landlocked]

The water pump on my 94 Camry 4cyl went out with only 59K on it since the last replacement. It stranded my family in the middle of nowhere.

I thought that I had stopped quick enough to prevent major problems connected with overheating. But not too long after that failure, I started having overheating problems and eventually had to replace the radiator, two sensors, the thermostat and even a head gasket.

Might have been a coincidence, but a busted hose could cause the same grief.

Incidentally my mechanic suggested hose replacement when they replaced the head gasket. They said the hose were 'too soft' and had lots of miles on them.

It is very good advice to head off the problem like you planned.

[Jimbello]

I have a very slight leak on the junction at one of the heater bypass connections to the water pump. Is there an "O" ring seal in there? I'm guessing there is. I hope I can measure the pipe and buy one to fit. I don't want to pull it out untill I get another to replace it, as I live some distance from town. I might have to however.

Jim.

[jdmccright]

As far as I know, those nipples are press-fit into the pump body with no o-ring in between. I've never seen that type of leak failure before but perhaps some of the paid mechs have. I would say the fool-proof way to fix it is to replace the pump, and if it is the original pump, then it's probably time to change it anyways...mileage?

Unconventional means (read cheaper but riskier) would be to try to remove the nipple without damaging it (you need the hose part to stay smooth so it can seal properly), cleaning up the hole, applying some JB weld onto the nipple where it mates with the pump hole, and pressing it back in. You would not need very much JBW, just enough to lightly coat each surface. Too much and you risk some dripping into the pump or causing partial blockage of the passage. As I said, I've never had this happen so I can't vouch for this, but given your situation it is an option that doesn't involve removing the pump.

I had thought of removing the nipple and cutting threads in the hole for a regular threaded hose nipple, but that would cause shavings to get into the pump body and then circulate them through the system. For this, I'd remove the pump first, which means tearing down the front of the engine to remove the timing pulley & belt. If I had to remove the pump to do this and the pump was already old, I'd just replace the pump. And if it were newer, I'd hopefully replace it under warranty. So, I wouldn't turn to this unless you were forced to.

Hope this helps!

[Jimbello]

Originally Posted by jdmccright

As far as I know, those nipples are press-fit into the pump body with no o-ring in between..............Hope this helps!

Yes, it does help.
However, looking at an exploded diagram of the assembly, it did seem to indicate that there was an "O" ring in there? I am about to find out, I will dismantle it later today all things going to plan. I'm waiting on gaskets to have here before starting the job.
I have to say, it is astonishing that this junction/join in the bypass plumbing would have a press fit! (If it is as you say).. Not doubting, just amazed!
The car has done 375,000 klms. However, this water pump was replaced about 30,000 klms ago.

Jim.