Tranny/Torque converter ??'s

[Mr. Luos]

Having what seems to be a pretty common problem.
2001 Grand Am GT auto.
Fresh tranny fluid.

1-2 shift....sloppy. VERY sloppy. Seems to shift fine under light load, but if you are on it, it takes 4, 5, 6 seconds to make the shift. 2-3 feels fine under WOT.

Another issue that creates another question.
Heading uphill in 4th (OD) gear. Car needs a little more RPM to stay at speed, but it doesn't need to shift into 3rd gear.
Under those conditions I will start to get a surge. Now...this isn't throttle surge, it feels more like the TC being confused. It wants to lock or unlock (I can't recall which one) but can't seem to figure it out. I have recently noticed this even when trying to get the car to downshift. Seems to take more throttle than it should. But once it downshifts, it does it just fine.

So....
1. Is the torque converter a removeable part?
2. Can it be replaced without replacing the tranny?
3. Is the tranny computer controlled by RPM/TPS or is it controlled by vacuum?

4. Ideas??

[xeroinfinity]

1&2 yes when you remove the 4t45e trany

Many sensors control the trans, the shifts are controled by the PCM.

Have you ever taken it in to see if thiers any trans codes stored. They usually dont trip any lights.

But that surging sounds like a pump issue.
I dont do a whole lot on these buggers, drop'm now and again.
Hav a 4t45 that I "started" taking apart about 3months ago Its just been coverd with a towel for now, letting it rest

[Mr. Luos]

Take it for codes. AutoZone or does the dealer need to pull those??
Does this sound more like an issue with the tranny or the TC???

[skibum1111]

I think autozone can pull trans codes, but I'd call first just to make sure. Does that trans use a filter and if so, was that changed too? I've never owned a car with an auto trans, never had to deal with this stuff.

[xeroinfinity]

I dont think the Zone can do trans codes or abs.

By TC you mean torqueconverter, it could or could not, its really hard for me to say without driving/testing it. Since you change the fluid as frequent as you do, I'd say NO.

Heres something I found, kinda sound simular to your issues Mr Luos. But this one would hav the SES light illuminated. Though it does refer to line pressure issue, and thats what your simptoms point to. this is a 2003 bulliton.

#03-07-30-021 Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, SES

Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, Service Engine Soon (SES) Light Illuminated, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P1810, P1815 Set (Replace TFP Manual Valve Position Switch) #03-07-30-021 - (05/15/2003)
Neutral Flare and/or RPM Flare While In Drive, No 1-2 Upshift, Service Engine Soon (SES) Light Illuminated, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P1810, DTC P1815 Set (Replace Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Manual Valve Position Switch)

1995-2003 Chevrolet Cavalier
1997-2003 Chevrolet Malibu
1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero
1995-2003 Pontiac Sunfire
1998-2003 Pontiac Grand Am
with 4T40E Transmission (RPO MN4) or 4T45E Transmission (RPO MN5)
Condition
Some customers may comment on a neutral flare and/or RPM increase while in drive or no 1-2 upshift and/or the Service Engine Soon (SES) telltale may be illuminated. On 1995-2002 model vehicles, the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) may set a DTC P1810 while on 2003 model vehicles, the PCM may set a DTC P1815.

Cause
The cause may be the transmission fluid pressure (TFP) switch (also known as the pressure switch manifold (PSM)). It will be referred to as the TFP switch in this bulletin.

Correction
Follow the diagnosis and service procedure below to correct this condition.

Perform the following diagnostics to correctly repair this condition
For diagnosis of DTC P1810, refer to DTC P1810 (SI Document ID #854362).
For diagnosis of DTC P1815, refer to DTC P1815 (SI Document ID #854374).

Important
Before installing the new TFP switch, inspect the date code stamped in the switch. The date code MUST BE 2308 or higher. Refer to the illustration above.


Replace the TFP switch. Refer to Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) Manual Valve Position Switch Replacement (SI Document ID #803989).
Clear the code and road test the vehicle.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty

24226580
Switch, Transmission Fluid Pressure (TFP) 1

My GT had a surge when I bought it, especially up big hills and felt like it would loose power, and surge.

I used some Lucas Oil transmision stuff, ran the crap out of it. But while doggin it, I manually shifted up and down. When I got the surge up hill, droped into 2nd and surged the throtle real fast timing it to the trans surge.
Then I changed the fluid & filter after about 100mls.
Seems fine, never had any codes, just been babied to Long
Yes I am rough on my vehicles
Can I drive your TA now Mr Luos ??

[Mr. Luos]

Sure.
But you have to come out here.


Manually shifted it today from 1 to 2.
No slip.
Figures.

I will look into that switch. I get no noise from the tranny, no chips, and every other shift feels fine, so that might make sense.
Thanks!!

[xeroinfinity]

No prob Mr Luos.

If I'm ever out your way,
I'll look ya up for that drive

[grfnkl]

this is a great post, i like the info that you provided XI. Some of this may help explain my tranny whoa's that i have dealt with for the past 3+ years.

I would say my symptoms are the same as Mr Lous but, mine will shift into neutral between shift 1 and 2 at a lower speed range then slip into 2nd or sometimes it will slam into gear.( ex: your going 40 mph, slow down to 20 mph, then go to accelerate you'll get the shift lag) I can also sometimes hear and feel it come out of gear at a stop, with either a crack or pop noise, then the car will jerk. At WOT the car basically revs then slams into gear, i can't do manual shifting cause then the car is worse in regular drive mode. No codes were ever found in the system, and so far no one can find, feel or figure out what's wrong. Do you think I'm looking at the same problem? Any suggestions?

[xeroinfinity]

Honestly I Dont know grfnkl.

Though my SE has simular simptoms at times.
When I'm taking off hard then let off before 1st winds out, it'll slip(like in N)but then catch and "slam" into gear.

Or it'll just slip like your riding the clutch out till it grabs.
And it used to act realy flakie after running the DS out of it, or manualy shifting.

I know it improved greatly just with the trany cooler.
Since I've been on top of the F&Filter change,
and switched to Synthetic its been running realy well. (knock-on-wood)!

So grfnkl, when was your last Fluid & filter change?
It sounds like your trouble might be the same as Mr Luos's.
And that your clutches between 1 & 2 are probly stuck together.

I'm real hard on mine.
I manually up shift & down shift all the time.
Drop it into 2 @ 50mph to slow down


I am really in the 4t45s ,
they should hav kept the 4t60s in the GA.

at least then you can check you fluid level :P

[Mr. Luos]

Mine doesn't go into neutral for the 1-2 shift....it just seems like it can't decide if it wants to actually shift or not. RPM's hang near redline for a second, then slowly find their way to where they should be in 2nd.
Sucks...

Any idea where the switch is on the car/tranny??

[xeroinfinity]

Not exactly sure Mr Luos,
but its inside the trany on the drivers side,
probly between #1 and #18 (in red circles) in this pic of the first exploded veiw..

......... well photodump's taking a dump ! :
I'll post those two pics in a while !!

[skibum1111]

This is why I stick to manual transmissions. I was looking at the 99-up gt's, didn't buy one becasue I couldn't get a manual transmission. Good luck with it Luos, when you find the problem let us know.

[Mr. Luos]

I am going to go ahead and try that switch.
My girl works for a GM dealership, so the part won't be too expensive.

It all depends on how hard it is to access.

[BNaylor]

The TFP switch is a PITA to replace. Same as doing a PCS solenoid. It is located on the valve body which is under the tranny side cover assembly.

Here is a general procedure applicable to any GM car with the 4T45E and/or 4T65E autotransaxles. This is just to get the side cover off.


Disconnect the battery ground (negative) cable. Refer to Battery Negative Cable Disconnect/Connect Procedure in Starting and Charging.
Remove the throttle body air inlet duct. Refer to Air Cleaner Intake Duct Replacement in Powertrain Management.
Install the engine support fixture. Refer to Engine Support Fixture.
Remove the engine mount strut. Refer to Engine Mount Strut Replacement in Engine.
Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Vehicle Lifting.
Remove the left front wheel. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the left engine splash shield. Refer to Splash Shield Replacement - Engine in Body and Frame.
Remove the stabilizer shaft links from the lower control arms. Refer to Stabilizer Shaft Link Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the left tie rod end from the steering knuckle. Refer to Steering Knuckle Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the wheel speed sensor harness connector. Refer Wheel Speed Sensor Jumper Harness Replacement (Front) in Brakes and Traction Control.
Remove the left lower ball joint from the left steering knuckle. Refer to Steering Knuckle Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Disconnect the left drive axle from the transaxle. Refer to Wheel Drive Shafts Replacement (Left) or Wheel Drive Shafts Replacement (Right).
Secure the drive axle to the steering knuckle/strut. Caution: Failure to disconnect the intermediate shaft from the rack and pinion stub shaft can result in damage to the steering gear and/or damage to the intermediate shaft. This damage may cause loss of steering control which could result in personal injury.
Remove the pinch bolt at the intermediate steering shaft. Refer to intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Remove the intermediate shaft from the steering gear. Refer to Intermediate Steering Shaft Replacement in Steering and Suspension.
Disconnect the three-way catalytic converter pipe to the right (rear) exhaust manifold. Refer to Catalytic Converter Replacement in Powertrain Management.
Support the right side of the frame with jackstands.
Support the left side of the frame with jackstands.
Remove the transaxle mount bracket. Refer to Automatic Transmission Mount Bracket Replacement.
Remove the transaxle mount. Refer to Automatic Transmission Mount Replacement.
Loosen the engine mount lower nuts. Refer to Engine Mount Replacement (Front) and Engine Mount Replacement (Rear) in Engine.
Loosen the right side frame to body bolts. Refer to Frame Repair in Frame and Underbody.
Remove the left side frame to body bolts. Refer to Frame Repair in Frame and Underbody.
Adjust the jackstand to the lower left side of the frame.
Position the drain pan under the transaxle.
Remove the wiring harness connector.
Remove the case side cover bolts..

[xeroinfinity]

Ya Bob thats about all of it

I hav PICS now !

Heres an exploded view.
Exploded

Heres a close up of the valve body..
VB & Solenoids

Hope that helps giv you an idea of where the switch is.

It can be done DIY.
You put that motor in your TA,
and thiers not that much to do if you hav the proper equipment.

Good Luck