96 3.3 GC no start - please help

[camrycurt]

Hey guys,

I hope you can help us with our van, because it's about to go to the crusher!

We have a 96 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 engine and it ran great up until two weeks ago. One morning my wife gets in and after she started it she noticed that the radio, A/C, and power windows didn't work. So she turned it off and restarted and everything worked fine. She drove it all day with no problems, but in the afternoon she went to her dad's and pulled into his driveway and left it idling in Park to get out and talk with him. Apparently, our 5 year old daughter got out of her seat and turned the ignition off. My wife gets back in the van and it starts fine and she backs out of the driveway into the street and puts the van back in Park to turn around and help the kids with something and the van dies (I don't know if it was immediate or after it had idled for a while) and won't restart. It will crank fine, but it never catches and starts.

So we tow it to our trusty regular mechanic and he diagnoses it as no spark. He works on it for 4 days and checks everything he can think of (cam sensor, ignition coil, plug wires, crank sensor, ignition switch) but can't get it started. So we tow it to the dealership and they have now had it for 4 days as well and are likewise stumped. They have checked everything and haven't found the problem. They think it is a short somewhere and have been looking for two days but can't find it. They want to hold it over the weekend and have one more guy look at it on Monday because he is apparently their best guy for electrical problems and can usually troubleshoot them, but at this point they're not really very hopeful that they can get her running again.

I'm just hopeful that someone here might have some insight that could help us out. I have no reason to believe that the dealership is trying to screw us (why would they?) and I have to think that they know what they're doing and should be the best at getting the van fixed so if they can't fix it it goes to the junkyard.

I just hate to scrap what should be a perfectly good van, especially because we really can't afford another vehicle right now. I can't believe that it would quit like that without warning and there's no way to fix it.

If anyone has any insight, please feel free to pass it along.

Thanks!
Curt

[beachbummm]

Is your van a gold 96? if so I have her evil twin sister!

Same problem here, I made a left out of the driveway and that was it..

I got an error code 24 TPS, and had it replaced, they changed the main computer, plug wires,plugs, tested the coil pack and still nothing..crank but will not run..

If the dealer cant fix her I think we are both screwed!

Please let me know what you find!
Thanks

[RIP]

Have they looked at the Automatic Shutdown (ASD) system? There are several components associated with this system. The brain is the Powertrain Control Module. It gets signals from the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors. If those signals are missing or out of spec the PCM removes the ground from the fuel pump and ASD relay which, in turn, removes voltage from the fuel injectors, ignition coil, and O2 sensors. The engine will crank but, won't start.

I'm told crankshaft and camshaft sensors can be bad and not trigger a fault code. I've also read non OEM sensors can give you fits. Always use Chrysler sensors. It appears the best way to "check" these sensors is to replace them.

[beachbummm]

Thanks for the reply RIP

I am not sure where this ASD relay is, Im trying to figure this one out on my own..I was going to have someone crank the motor as I tap the relays and sensors with a screwdriver..

I noticed a sound coming from under the dash when this started to happen, Like the vacuume pump in the AC system clicking on and off very fast(as when you go from AC to defrost) could this have something to do with it?

[Bear]

Interesting.My '96 Caravan would occassionally start and then I had no HVAC or turn signals, etc. I would turn car off and restart and all systems GO. Turned out to be the ignition switch (not the lock cylineer) as 12VDC comes off of that item to various interior components.

[beachbummm]

I forgot to mention, My fuel rail is leaking badly at the joint over the vavle cover, it is under recall so if you paid the $300+ for a fuel rail, you might be able to get some cash back..

[RIP]

beachbummm - ASD and associated relays are in the Pwer Distribution Center (PDC). That's Chrysler lingo for the fuse and relay box next to the battery. There is a procedure to check the relay. Recommend you buy at least a Haynes/Chiltons manual if you want to tackle this problem.

When you say vacuum pump you mean A/C compressor correct? Can't see how a noise on that side of the dash would effect starting. Keep it in your pocket though.

Had the fuel rail recall done years ago at no cost. Thanks for the info anyway. I'm sure yours isn't the only van that still needs it.

Bear - Good to hear it's not always the BCM creating that kind of problem. Seems like half the electrical problems are associated with that ugly little box. Did you change the switch? How tough was it? I've got a similar problem.

[Bear]

I did change the switch and it took about 45 minutes (after takinfg trim away from the steering column). Switch is attached to bottom of ignition lock cylinder, some say you need to take the ignition key lock out (key to on and then push the little piece sticking out of bottom of lock cylinder in, hold it in while pulling the assembly out). I did not do this and got away with tjust he switch being pulled (HAYNES has a pretty good how to). Since changing that swtich out my troubles (related to it) have gone away.

[beachbummm]

Ok, the gremlins are on vacation, I went to check on her today and it started right up..
There are no error codes stored in the system other then #12 & #55
batt disconected and end of message...

I have NO clue what is wrong with it, at this point I think Im taking it to the dealer to get the recall work done on her and sell her..I drive almost 80 miles a day and cant take a chance on her taking another 5 day vacation..

Thanks for all the advice ..I will check back to see if anyone has found the factory installed gremlin and how to get rid of them..

[RIP]

Thanks Bear. Doesn't sound too complicated. Might have to change it soon. Every now and then, like so many others, when I start, my instruments are dead, no dash lights, no radio, and the overhead console is dead. Restart it and all is well the rest of the day. So far it happens once or twice a month but, if it gets worse I'll have to do something. Just about everything I've read on this forum has lead me to the BCM or solder joints but, your experience presents another possibility. Thanks for sharing.

Egads! We did it again! How you doin Camrycurt. Learn anything new?

[fixmuflym]

Well here is another thing to look at a loose ground. I have a 96 grand caravan myself and well i have had the same problems mentioned above i looked everywhere for a problem what ended up being a simple check of the negitive cable loose at the battery. It felt tight and further investigation led me to find that the nut and bolt was tight but the clamp was just loose enuf to cause a short. good luck with your problem if u need a wiring schematic let me know i might be able to copy what i have and send it to you.

[camrycurt]

Update on original post:

Well, the dealership got the van running again the next week. They ended up replacing the PCM after determining that it was bad, and they of course threw in a new set of spark plugs and wires just to add to my misery. Anyway, it's running fine now.

Why it took the dealership a week to determine the computer was bad is beyond me. Seems like they should be able to check that out right away. After the first 4 days they claimed to have checked everything out and it was all OK and they "were stumped", but obviously they just wanted to mess with my mind.

Thanks for the help, and beachbummm, I hope you get yours sorted out soon too.

Thanks!