2000 Transmission hard shift

[cef2lion]

I have the issue with my transmission shifting hard mostly when warm. Tried lube guard. Reading leads me to believe it might be pressure control solenoid for 4T65E transmision. I have seen pictures of the solenoid.

Has anyone actually changed one of these themself? Again from what I read it appears and issue of access from the drivers side of the transmission. Something needs reset or learned afterwards. Very good at working on cars but don't know if I would be missing some tool or just too involved.

Wondering how sure of a fix this is as I would like to get this addressed.

[BNaylor]

Yes, I have on a 97 Grand Prix GTP with the 4T65E-HD tranny and it is no fun. Also, I installed a TransGo valve body kit.

I would highly recommend not attempting the work DIY. Typically, tranny shops charge around $500 for the labor and part. In the meantime since the Lubegard did not work try something a little better like Seafoam tranny additive to get you by.

I'd recommend getting it scanned with a trans capable scanner and see if DTC error code P1811 is stored. This code would support your suspicion the PCS solenoid is flaky. It does not trigger a SES/CEL light.

[phewop118]

My car is doing the same thing. Actually, it used to do it about once a month, usually after starting the car back up after shutting it off for a few minutes, like at a quick coffee pickup. Now, nearly everyday in the afternoon heat and Pittsburgh traffic, it starts its hard shifting. To get it to stop, I need to shut the car off for at least a few minutes. Accompanying this is an increase in temperature, according to the temp. gauge on in the instrument panel. Yesterday I saw it hit the highest yet, almost at the 3/4 line. I have two questions. 1) Is the temperature increase caused by the transmission not sensing the pressure correctly and shifting funny, screwing up the engine or is it the hot engine causing the the tranny to shift funny. 2) Will the hard shifting hurt the transmission? I know I read somewhere that it is bad on the half-shafts and cv joints, but what about the transmission parts, i.e. the valve body or sun gear (expensive repairs)? It doesn't seem to slip when it shifts hard, it just waits till the revs are about 1000 rpm above a normal shift point then immediately shifts, cause plastic trim in the car to creak.

How bad will a dealer hammer me on changing the pressure control solenoid? My dealer is pretty reasonable (they charged my $60 for pan drop and fluid change, $20 for cat. converter check using a backpressure test), so I'm assuming they'll be on the lower pricing side.

[cef2lion]

Originally Posted by phewop118

How bad will a dealer hammer me on changing the pressure control solenoid? My dealer is pretty reasonable (they charged my $60 for pan drop and fluid change, $20 for cat. converter check using a backpressure test), so I'm assuming they'll be on the lower pricing side.

Not sure but I'm checking around myself. I have seen these solenoids on ebay. Price isn't all that bad. Too bad it is so hard to change. By the looks of things its more work getting to it then actually changing it.

The hard shifts can be good for it. I try to sense a shift point and ease of the gas. Temperature does seem to be a key in it acting up. My does and it is odd in that it can start doing it and if I shut it off it and wait a few minutes and then start out again it might just go away for awhile.

[BNaylor]

The best price I've ever seen a GM dealer charge for a PCS job was around $800.

I would exercise caution getting any solenoid off of EBay or an aftermarket. GM revised the PCS solenoid and implemented it in the 2002 model year on GM cars with the 4T65E, therefore I would get the improved one from the dealer or an AC Delco Authorized Parts Dealer.

The harsh shifting is caused by the PCS not properly controlling line pressure which will vary with heat and other conditions. I worked with a Regal owner in the past who had PCS problems around 70K miles and went all the way to 120K miles before finally replacing it. When it acted up he would just pull over and turn the ignition off for a few minutes and then go about his merry way.

[cef2lion]

[quote=bnaylor]I would exercise caution getting any solenoid off of EBay or an aftermarket.
QUOTE]

I agree. Just stated that I saw some on ebay and just noted the price. I read something about GM revising the solenoid in later years but would it be backwards compatable. If you have the work done one would assume a GM dealer would know about putting the best replacement in.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by cef2lion

I agree. Just stated that I saw some on ebay and just noted the price. I read something about GM revising the solenoid in later years but would it be backwards compatable. If you have the work done one would assume a GM dealer would know about putting the best replacement in.

From what I understand it is compatible. Of course, the Intrigue never saw use of it due to 2002 being the last year of production. The old part number is 10478146, new is 24225825. Although it was improved in 2002, it was first introduced on 2003 and up GM cars with that tranny with GM RPO codes MN3, M15 and MN7. It always best to check with the dealer and see what they say.

[cef2lion]

Originally Posted by bnaylor

From what I understand it is compatible. Of course, the Intrigue never saw use of it due to 2002 being the last year of production. The old part number is 10478146, new is 24225825. Although it was improved in 2002, it was first introduced on 2003 and up GM cars with that tranny with GM RPO codes MN3, M15 and MN7. It always best to check with the dealer and see what they say.

Those are the part numbers I have written down. Thanks for confirming. Wondering, do you have a brief discription on what needs to be done to access the solenoid? I think it is on the drivers side of transmission. Does the engine and transmission need to be lower a bit and access is via the right front tire wheel well. Friend of mine thought there was a plate on side of transmission that allows access.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by cef2lion

Those are the part numbers I have written down. Thanks for confirming. Wondering, do you have a brief discription on what needs to be done to access the solenoid? I think it is on the drivers side of transmission. Does the engine and transmission need to be lower a bit and access is via the right front tire wheel well. Friend of mine thought there was a plate on side of transmission that allows access.

Checkout the thread below. One of the regulars, Panzer Dragoon posted some info at his post #11 to give you an idea. Basically, an engine hoist is required to support the engine/tranny. Car has to be raised up.Then the subframe is loosened up and the engine/tranny dropped with it after removal of a bunch of stuff like the axle shaft, etc. A very tedious procedure. What limits side cover removal is the lack of working space in the engine compartment.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...=527512&page=2

[cef2lion]

Originally Posted by bnaylor

Checkout the thread below. One of the regulars, Panzer Dragoon posted some info at his post #11 to give you an idea. Basically, an engine hoist is required to support the engine/tranny. Car has to be raised up.Then the subframe is loosened up and the engine/tranny dropped with it after removal of a bunch of stuff like the axle shaft, etc. A very tedious procedure. What limits side cover removal is the lack of working space in the engine compartment.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...=527512&page=2

Great link. Thanks. Saved it. Person above said to maybe have transmision scan for code P1811. The diagram in that link show 2 shift solenoids and the PCS. Is this hard shift issue just related to the PSC and you do not need to replace the other 2? After the install is there a relearn or reset process for the new solenoid?

Craig

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by cef2lion

Great link. Thanks. Saved it. Person above said to maybe have transmision scan for code P1811. The diagram in that link show 2 shift solenoids and the PCS. Is this hard shift issue just related to the PSC and you do not need to replace the other 2? After the install is there a relearn or reset process for the new solenoid?

Craig

You're welcome. If P1811 shows up on a scan then the PCS is the most likely cause and it is the subject of a GM TSB that has been out for quite a few years now which states replace the PCS solenoid.

Normally it is just the PCS solenoid but it probably would not hurt to replace the 1-2, 2-3 upshift solenoids and the TCC-PWM solenoid. They are located right on the valve body mostly on the left hand side. The 2-3 is located on the right hand side.

After any major tranny work like a rebuild or valve body work the PCM should be reset to clear out the adaptive shift information stored and allow it to relearn. Good luck!

[panzer dragoon]

those shift solenoids are 1-2 3-4 and 2-3.

So if your crappy shifts are only 1-2 and 3-4 you know it's the one solenoid if it's a 2-3 shift it's the other. (hopefully)

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/alto_2.htm
this place sells reamers, sleeves, and the valves for the 4T65e

The warranty on GM rebuilt trannies are 3yr or 100k miles (not bad).

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by panzer dragoon

those shift solenoids are 1-2 3-4 and 2-3.

So if your crappy shifts are only 1-2 and 3-4 you know it's the one solenoid if it's a 2-3 shift it's the other. (hopefully)

Maybe this will be less confusing. The shift solenoids work together in the form of a matrix or logic gate depending on where the transmission range switch is set. And you can add the 3-4 to the 1-2 shift solenoid for labeling purposes if you'd like. But this should be self explanatory and less confusing on how the solenoids work.

[panzer dragoon]

that makes more sense, but now it's more confusing which one is bad. =All the more reason for a rebuild if you need to swap out one of the solenoids.

A good chart to have. I'm just thankful I don't have tranny problems yet.

[troy1]

The new PCS are NOT backwards compatible according to all my info. A bad PCS with cause harsh shifts when hot or even shudders and slide bang shifts. I have seen people drive them too long and burn up clutches or break the 2nd drum. My advice would be to get it fixed because its only going to get worse. Please don't get an aftermarket solenoid and do your self a favor and replace the TCC PWM solenoid also.