Brake lines. Bubble flare. Help me!

[jiveabillion]

I am converting the brake system on my 1989 Buick Electra T-Type from ABS to regular power brakes. I am having the hardest time finding fittings for everything. That aside, I can't find a tool for making bubble flares in any of the parts stores in my area. I did however find a page online that said a bubble flare is essentially a double flare done only half way. Is there any truth in this? Can I get the bubble flare I need using just a double flare tool? Also, any other info on converting from ABS to non ABS would be helpfull. I am about to pull my hair out and I am beginning to think that having to stand on the brake pedal to stop the car, but still being able to drive the car would have been better than it's current state of no brake hardware installed at all. Please Help. Even the tiniest snippet of information would be helpful, so post if you have any info at all please!! Thank you everyone in advance!

[Alibi]

Read the post in the Electra thread. Then read these:

http://www.lesabret.com/phpBB/viewto...ght=abs+nonabs

http://www.lesabret.com/phpBB/viewto...ght=abs+nonabs

http://www.lesabret.com/phpBB/viewto...ght=abs+nonabs

http://www.lesabret.com/phpBB/viewto...ght=abs+nonabs

And here for a bubble flare tool:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...ble+flare+tool

[jiveabillion]

Thanks a ton Alibi! Those posts answered alot of my questions. I still have a few though. The ABS system only had 3 brake lines coming off of it. I followed the biggest line to the rear of the car, and it splits off near the rear driver side wheel and shoots across to the passenger side rear wheel. The Master Cylinder I bought has 4 brake lines coming out of it. I am getting the valve things off of a junked LeSabre. I had to cut the brake lines to get the old system off. Should I run new lines to all 4 wheels, or should I use the splitter in the back again somehow? I'm really new to working on brakes, and the book I have is of little help. Can anyone recommend some good literature that would help me out? Any other help is also very appreicated. Thanks!

[wrightz28]

Actually, when I ahd to replace my lines, I did hand make the flares for the the main runs to the rear, I double flared them. But the rest of the system to the wheels aI bought pre-flared lines and adapters, the guys at Napa were of large help and have the parts lisiting of the system.

[terry wheeler]

Originally Posted by jiveabillion

I am converting the brake system on my 1989 Buick Electra T-Type from ABS to regular power brakes. I am having the hardest time finding fittings for everything. That aside, I can't find a tool for making bubble flares in any of the parts stores in my area. I did however find a page online that said a bubble flare is essentially a double flare done only half way. Is there any truth in this? Can I get the bubble flare I need using just a double flare tool? Also, any other info on converting from ABS to non ABS would be helpfull. I am about to pull my hair out and I am beginning to think that having to stand on the brake pedal to stop the car, but still being able to drive the car would have been better than it's current state of no brake hardware installed at all. Please Help. Even the tiniest snippet of information would be helpful, so post if you have any info at all please!! Thank you everyone in advance!

Ineed help answering some questions about the air ride system on a 1994 park avenue

[terry wheeler]

hepl please 1994 buick park avenue air ride system

[wrightz28]

Originally Posted by terry wheeler

hepl please 1994 buick park avenue air ride system

Make a new thread and outline your problem and what you need help with

[jiveabillion]

For some reason, NAPA didn't have any adapters that would fit any of the holes on my master cylinder. This is extremely frustrating because that means that I HAVE to run my own line and use the fittings I get off the junker. Unless any of you can come up with a better solution for me.

[wrightz28]

I believe they are 3/8" ?

[Alibi]

Yeah, the lines are 3/8. The lines are bubble flared and I think the ones at Napa are....um...dang, I forgot what the name is but they aren't bubble flared.

You are very welcome for the links, either way. I like to keep these cars on the road because they are just too nice and unique to junk.

Anyway I think one of them (the links) mentioned this splitter. On the Non-ABS vehicles, there were a line to each wheel. On the ABS vehicles, the both rear wheels were controlled by one line which was split off via a T junction. What you could do, is go back to the junkyard and pull both rear brake lines from the same car that the cylander came from. This would guaruntee that you got the right lines, right shape, right length, etc. The only catch would be removing them without bending them, and this is assuming they aren't rusted all to hell.

Edit: I just re-read that you chopped the old lines. The nice thing is that you shouldn't have a problem with finding another car with decent lines. Pretty much any 87-91 Olds 88, olds 98, Pontiac Bonnevile, Buick LeSabre, Buick Park Avenue (FWD), Buick Electra, and (I think) Caddy Deville were basically the same car (h body or C body). 86 may work too, but I think it would be a stretch...

Another possibility (although riskier) would be to leave the old lines and splitter intact, and use just one of the proportioning valves (the brass-colored things). As for the other proportioning valve, you could try to find a bolt at Lowes or home depot or something to use to just seal it off. I wouldn't recommend this as a permanent fix, but temporarily it may be ok. Anybody else think this would work?

[wrightz28]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Yeah, the lines are 3/8. The lines are bubble flared and I think the ones at Napa are....um...dang, I forgot what the name is but they aren't bubble flared.

Well, I was going to make a mention that when I did mine, section by section as required, from the M/C back to the rear junctions, were all 3/8 an double flared, I made those. When I had to replace from the junction to respective hoses, I took one look at the line running across to the right side and said the hell with it I'm going to be doing a ton of bending and needed the car up and running quickly, so I wasn't gong to spend the extra time cautiously flaring them, and bought pre flared. Luckily I did because when I brought the old ones in, the parts counter was baffled by the fact that one end was bubble flared, and the other double, and one end was 3/8 (junction) and the other (hose) was 10mm?

I posted a thread up on the back in June?I believe. Because i was was trying to see if it was just a hack job done by a previous owner or what the hairy heck was up with it

[jiveabillion]

Originally Posted by Alibi

Another possibility (although riskier) would be to leave the old lines and splitter intact, and use just one of the proportioning valves (the brass-colored things). As for the other proportioning valve, you could try to find a bolt at Lowes or home depot or something to use to just seal it off. I wouldn't recommend this as a permanent fix, but temporarily it may be ok. Anybody else think this would work?

The mechanic that owns the yard that I got my parts out of mentioned that I might be able to keep the back brakes split and block off one of the proportioning valves. I was actually able to get the back brake line disconnected without cutting it, so this is still an option for me. I may have to cut the flare off so I can change the fitting to something that will actually hook up to my new master cylinder though. it's worth a shot, I dont think it will cause damage to the MC, and if it does, I still have the spare from the junker.

[Alibi]

At least I wasn't the only one to think of this then. I think you may be ok then. This would be a considerably faster and cheaper way and it should still get the job done without any problems. I can't think of any reason why this would harm the MC either. Honestly, I had a proportioning valve on my BLT that was clogged (and has been for who knows how many years) and I haven't had any trouble from my MC. Go for it!

Post your results as I will be doing a similar project in a couple months to another T that I'm going to pick up Oh, and you should check out http://www.lesabret.com if you haven't already.

[jiveabillion]

Ok, I am going to run all 4 brake lines instead of using the existing splitter to the back wheels because of the rust that I found. I have run 3 already, but I ran out of brake line before I got to the rear right side. I just have a question that I can't find the answer to. What order do the brake lines connect to the master cylinder? I have 2 ports on the top 1,2 and then two with proportioning valves on the bottom 3,4 like this

1 2

3 4


can someone tell me where the rr lr and rf lf go?

[Alibi]

As long as you get the front lines on the top ports and the back lines on the proportioning valves, I don't think L or R matters. I'm not 100% sure, but logic tells me that since it is all mechanical (well, pnumatic I think is the right word) it doesn't matter since the same amount of pressure is going to each side.

Can anyone confirm this? I'm fairly sure, but brakes are a bad thing to be wrong on. Otherwise, how is the project turning out for you? Can you post a couple pics in the end or at least sizes for future reference?

Edit: Just so you are sure, I am 100% sure that the rear brake lines go to though the proportioning valves on the bottom ports of the master cylander. The valves are for proportioning 40% of the braking power to the rear drums and 60% of braking power to the front discs to compensate for the extra weight of the engine.