Cooling fans

[Theremin]

I have a 96 Taurus (67,000), 24 valve, EATC. With AC on the fans shut off and on. About 15 to 30 sec intervals. With AC off the fans never come on, even when temp gets to about 212. (Reading pids in NGS). The car will run fine for 35 to 40 mins but after that it starts to get hot. I have changed the engine coolant temp sensor, the thermostat and it's housing (fluid was nice and green, no sludge), the CCRM and the PCM. I work @ a Ford facility so some friends helped me with the parts. I'm about to go after the wiring. Am I missing anything on this? Thanx

[mwt878991]

Originally Posted by Theremin

I have a 96 Taurus (67,000), 24 valve, EATC. With AC on the fans shut off and on. About 15 to 30 sec intervals. With AC off the fans never come on, even when temp gets to about 212. (Reading pids in NGS). The car will run fine for 35 to 40 mins but after that it starts to get hot. I have changed the engine temp sensor, the thermostat and it's housing (fluid was nice and green, no sludge), the CCRM and the PCM. I work @ a Ford facility so some friends helped me with the parts. I'm about to go after the wiring. Am I missing anything on this? Thanx

Are the relays trying to kick in ?


I am not sure but I dont believe the ECM reads the temp from the same sensor that runs to your gauge.


Mike

[Theremin]

You mean the PCM? No there are 2 sensors. One for the guage and the other the ECT sensor (engine coolant temp). The ECT sensor runs to the PCM and then out to the CCRM. I hear the relays kicking when the AC is on. Don't hear anything without the AC on.

[mwt878991]

Originally Posted by Theremin

You mean the PCM? No there are 2 sensors. One for the guage and the other the ECT sensor (engine coolant temp). The ECT sensor runs to the PCM and then out to the CCRM. I hear the relays kicking when the AC is on. Don't hear anything without the AC on.

Sorry , That's what I was getting at that you changed the correct sensor that would affect the fans.

Other than that I don't know

[Theremin]

OK here's what I've learned. My fans still work off and on. But when sitting @ idle with AC on, temp stays around 198. Which is okay. Gauge is @ about halfway. When sitting @ idle with AC off, fans come on when temp reaches 220, without fail,(so my fans do work without AC, I just wasn't sure @ what temp they should come on) and engine temp drops down to 200,202. @ 220 the needle is just below 3/4. So I'm looking @ a couple things. There may be a problem with my gauge or the sensor, I may need to burp my system, I've ruled out cottonwood on my condenser. Or I may not have a problem @ all. Any input would be appreciated. Thanx

[mwt878991]

I just went thru a situation on my 2000 that is very common on the 96 and up taurus.

It has been discussed a lot over at shoforum as well as www.taurusclub.com

The radiator actually gets clogged between the fins. You cant see it while it is in the car. Some people have pulled and cleaned the radiator and some have used a homemade brush and compressed air to clean it out.

My 2000 was overheating on hot days with AC on in traffic. Otherwise everything else was fine. I pulled it and sure enough it was clogged with dirt


Mike

[Theremin]

Originally Posted by mwt878991

I just went thru a situation on my 2000 that is very common on the 96 and up taurus.

Mike were your fans coming on and off with the AC on and if so is that normal for that year? If not will cleaning my condenser solve that problem? Is something telling them to shutdown. Thanx for the other site also.

[mwt878991]

Yes the fans were coming on correctly.

I even have special programming thru my XCalibrator II that turns the fans on twenty degrees earlier.

The problem only occured when the outside air was hot, I had the AC on and I was either driving hard with my car loaded or I was sitting in traffic with the AC on.

I could turn the AC off and turn the heater on and it would go back to normal immediately.

Also it never pegged out just ran about 3/4 of the gauge. Normally it never went above half way.

I replaced the radiator because I had it out and I wanted the piece of mind but I could have easily cleaned it out and put it back in and I feel it would have been fine.

Those radiators really get clogged up.

Mike

[Theremin]

Just to be clear Mike, my fans should always be on when my ac is on. They should not be turning off and on while compressor continues to run because ac is on?

[Theremin]

Hi, I'm still trying to find out if my cooling fans on my 96 Taurus should be running anytime the AC is on high. As I have said, mine run for about 30 secs, kick off and then kick on again. Has anyone else had this problem, if it is a problem, and what did you find. Thanx.

[shorod]

I don't find specific details on whether or not the fan should run the entire time the A/C or defroster is turned on, but per the service manual for the 1998 Taurus (I don't have my 1996 service manual with me):

THE ENGINE ELECTRIC COOLING FAN MOTOR MAY COME ON AT ANY TIME WITHOUT WARNING WITH THE IGNITION SWITCH IN THE RUN POSITION, EVEN IF THE ENGINE IS NOT RUNNING.

The fan control system consists of the following:

l powertrain control module (PCM) (12A650)

l related wiring

l two, two-speed cooling fan motors attached to a fan shroud (8146)located behind the radiator (8005)

l powertrain control module

l A/C cycling switch

l A/C clutch coil circuit

l cooling fan motors

The cooling fan motors are wired to operate only when ignition switch is in the RUN position, thereby preventing radiator electric motor operation after the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position.

Since there is no mention of the A/C switch, just the cycling switch and coil clutch, I suspect the fan should shut off when the compressor is not engaged. Again though, the above info is for a 1998 and may not be exactly the same for your 1996.

-Rod

[shorod]

Per the service manual for a 1998 Taurus:
---------------
Electrical System

Note:
With A/C ON, the cooling fan motors will run continuously. Cooling fan motors will not cycle ON and OFF with A/C clutch (2884).

Note:
An exception to this is when vehicle speed is over 61 km/h (38 mph) and coolant temperature is below 100ºC (212ºF), and A/C head pressure is below 1.71 MPA (250 psi). The cooling fan motors will then automatically shut off.

The cooling fan motors are mounted within a fan shroud (8146) behind the radiator (8005).
----------------

I am on travel and don't have a copy of the service manual for a 1996, so I am not positive the 1996 works the same.

-Rod

[Theremin]

I appreciate the response. Have you or anyone else experianced this problem. I did clean between the condenser and rad as recommended above but no go. It was needed but I don't understand how that would turn my fans on and off. I think maybe I'm looking @ a ground possibly. I'm @ my wits end. In cooler weather it seems to run fine. Today it got in the upper 80's and it went to the 3/4 mark again on my guage (takes about 45 mins for that to happen) but comes right back down because that's when it's getting around 220. My friend thought maybe water pump, resistor etc., etc.Thanx

[shorod]

I have not experienced what you describe. A couple more things to check though. Since you've opened the cooling system to replace the thermostat, maybe you still have an air pocket in the cooling system that is causing the erratic temps and fan operation. There is a procedure to bleed the cooling system.

You also should have the pressure cap tested or replace it.

Or, if you don't want to keep throwing parts at this car somewhat blindly, find a scan tool with the datastream feature and monitor the fan request parameter to determine if the PCM is requesting the fans to operate, even when they shut off. That will let you know if it's a problem with the inputs to the PCM, or problem between the PCM and the fan blades.

-Rod

[TomV]

I have a 97 G, the barebones car. I do not ever recollect either of the two fans coming on during my ownership. I have never had any overheating issues. Is this OK? Am I dreaming?