Going Crazy over this!

[Paul A]

Hi,
Someone PLEASE help me out with this one!
I have a 99 frontera (same as 99 rodeo) 2.2 litre 4 cylinder petrol.
The head gasket blew (due to the radiator failing) so, in it went to a local garage to be fixed.
The head wasn't cracked but had a little "scarring" so was skimmed slightly.
Much money later the car came back BUT, I noticed it was VERY smoky, like burning oil.
I returned the car to them and they stripped it all down again (no charge!).
They did find it had been burning oil in all 4 cyls.
They did a "seep test" on the piston rings and found them all 100% o.k.
They also replaced the valve stem oil seals and fitted yet another new head gasket.
The car is now back with me and it still smokes!
They are now saying that "there is something in the fuel".
They reckon they drained some fuel off and it "didn't smell like gasoline" and when they spilt some on the floor and it dried it left an "oily mark"
They advised me to put some more fuel in to dilute down whatever was in the tank (?).
This i've done and im not sure whether or not things are getting better.
I've driven about 50 miles or so but can still see guite a large cloud of blue-ish smoke on the overrun when changing gear.
Possibilities are that:

Maybe - (don't know how!) some diesel has got into the tank

They have fitted something wrong (maybe the wrong head gasket entirely?)

Or ....... Does anyone know of any other possibilities????

Help!

[highlandlake]

Paul,
How far the the vehicle been driven after the radiator failed? And do you know how hot the engine had risen to?
It is possible that there was more damage done than the mechanic has realized. Keep a close eye on the oil burning and if it doesn't clear up in the next 200 miles, then you may have to disassemble the engine again and look for the source of the leak. Get a second opinion if necessary reagarding the seep test. Maybe the new head gasket was not properly sealed?
Other folks will offer suggestions on this - and keep us posted on the follow-up.

[Paul A]

Well.... hasn't got any better, in fact worse!
Seems to be burning oil at the rate of about a quart for every 60 miles or so.
All things considered, and the fact that the garage agree it's burning oil in all 4 cylinders, I intend to dump the car back on them and they can repair it at their cost!
I think the cylinder head gasket is at fault (not sealing properly).
It DIDN'T do this before the car went in for new head gasket, in fact it didn't use much oil at all!
So, it has to be something they have screwed up!

[Gizmo42]

Sounds like the right plan to me. If its something they did wrong it should be 100% on them. If its something simple that they over looked that requires more parts I think I would agree to pay for the parts (or 50%) as long as it wasnt something major like the block or head. But thats only if they pressed the issue. All labor would be on them though.

[Paul A]

Well, Where do I start?
They have had the car now for 2 months and have only just removed the head again!
When I asked what they had found they said “nothing – we don’t think there is anything wrong with the head”
I asked if they had checked simple thing like valve guides, they say, “no need to, worn guides wouldn’t burn that much oil – we think it’s the oil control rings”
(Am I right in thinking, that, in fact, worn guides WOULD burn a lot of oil?)
Everything, to me, seems to point to oil entering through the top end (If you add oil whilst the engine is running it will smoke like crazy straight away BEFORE the oil has had a chance to get to the sump!)
Also, it doesn’t smoke (heavily) immediately on starting, takes about 15 – 20 seconds.
It’s burning oil in all 4 (confirmed by them) – I can’t see all 4 sets of rings going at once!
(The engine has only 60000 on it, never been overstressed, never been overrevved, never been used for towing)

I ‘ve been told by a few people that these heads can “go porous” if overheated – possible?

I also have a chance on a used head for £100 (about 180 dollars) off a car with 30000 on – worth a risk?

I really don’t know where to go on this one, sorry to ramble a bit, but I could really do with some advice!

Thanks in advance

Paul

[2eyefishclaw]

disposable engine
when they overheat no matter what the case is Isuzu tell us to replace the entire thing because there are always problems after a repair

[Ramblin Fever]

Agree with 2eyefish - been down this road before, with a 4-cylinder of another kind of beast. It's not worth repairing your current engine.

Either buy a new engine, might be able to switch to a 3.2L V6 or swap it out.

[artnold]

Guys have aq safe drive! God speed!

Thank you very much!

[redbug]

Have to agree with 2eyefishclaw... When you overheat an engine the oil boils off of the cylinder walls and you get metal on metal instead of metal with a thin coat of oil... Seep test? I've never heard of this as a valid test for wear.... I have used to it prove a point when one engine had a 1/8 inch score on the side of a wall, oil poured through. But, the wear could be down below where you mechanics are testing.. Plus, pistons behave differently when the are under a vacuum, like when the piston is in the intake stroke.... sucking in fuel, and sucking up oil... My guess is that your piston and cylinders are worn out. How about a compression test?

[Paul A]

Well,
Finally got her back!
Had the bottom end rebuilt, block sleeved/bored, new pistons/rings, new bearings , seals, oil pump, water pump and gaskets.
The whole lot cost around £700 (the head had already been rebuilt), which is about 1350 dollars or so.
Not a bad price really as the cheapest alternative was a secondhand engine from a wrecker for £1400!
It now runs really sweet, just running in at the moment.
Any advice on how long/how many miles I should run her in for?

[highlandlake]

Hey Paul,
That is good news on the price you paid.
Some shops around here change nearly that much for 1/2 as much work.

You might want to put about 1200-1500 kilometers on it as a 'break-in' period. Hopefully others here will recommend a specific weight oil's to use before and then after the break-in period. I'm thinking 0W-30 synthetic, but I am no expert.
Thumbs up on being back on the road!!!
Tom

[Ramblin Fever]

I personally wouldn't use a synthetic as a "break-in" oil, not unless it was originally designed from factory to use that oil.

There's nothing wrong with going to synthetic after say the 1st 12-15k miles, but I wouldn't be using it now. Some say there are no differences, and yet, others say they believe there are.

What is your temp climate right now?

[Paul A]

Hi Ramblin!

It's around 10 - 12 degrees at the moment.

Regards

Paul

[Ramblin Fever]

I'm not quite sure what oils are readily available to you; but I'd be using a good quality regular oil for 12k or so; and then, if you want synthetic, German Castrol 0w-30 is a great choice.

You might want to refer to the owners manual for the viscosity to run for your temperature climate.

Right now, I'm personally running a 10w-30 synthetic in my 3.2L V6 with temps ranging from -15F and up, but that's mainly because I couldn't find any 5w-30 in a 60-mile radius - and my engine, with 166k miles and lots of highway miles each week, tends to truly thin the oil out.