Do exotics' deserve the bragging rights they claim??

[SHO411]

Hey guys, first I just want to say, I don't want to get flammed for this opinion, if you've got a suggestion or opinion, it's more than welcome, but if you've got some cheesy remark, please keep it to yourself...............Thanks.

I re-posted this also in the general and european forums, just to get everyones opinion.

DO EXOTIC SPORT CARS DESERVE THE BRAGGING RIGHTS THEY CLAIM?

First let me clear this point, I love cars just as everyone of you, or even more, I like Imports, Domestics, European and what ever car is out there just as long as it meets my criteria, looks and performance, I could care less who made it.
Some cars I like:
R34 & R33 Skyline GT-R, 69 Shelby GT500 Elenor, 06 Corvette ZO6, Mazda RX7 III Gen, 06 BMW M6 & M5, Saleen S7, 05 Stang Cobra SVT, S14 Nissan 240SX, 350Z, 360 Modena, Holden HSV, T-Ram Firebirds, Acura NSX, Bughatti Veyron, 05 Porsche GT2 & GT, 06 Viper, WRX, etc, the list goes on and on into the hundreds...........

Now comes my beef, for a long time european cars have been bragging about how they don't need to use big engine cars to produce horsepower, case in point, the 360 Modena has 390Hp out of a 3.6 liter V8, WOW, and the Porche GT2 has 456Hp out of a 3.6L Flat 6, that's very impressive, we've even made fun of the domestics due to their 'pushrod' technology and cracked at how they make "cheap horsepower" by using very big engines, e.g Chevy small block 5.7L 330Hp - 400Hp, and now we have the 6.1L Hemi 390Hp - 425Hp, and the 7.0L ZO6 engine 505Hp, still using pushrod technology. That's alot of displacement.

We've all heard the comment, "there is NO replacement for displacement" from domestic lovers and most drag racers, but here goes my beef, I read an article about the Gas consumption of the High end 'Super Cars', and I was shocked and disapointed, as much as most owners and some of the companys brag about their high output engines, the fuel economy SUCKS!!!

BMW (by the way, I love their cars) bragged that they went from a 5.0L V8 with 400Hp to a 5.0L V10 500Hp, an extra 100Hp, without increasing displacement, but the funny thing is that the 06 M5 can only get 12 miles per gallon, that is even worse than a Suburban SUV, and the Modena with it's 390HP 3.6L V8 only get's you about 12 or 13 mpg, now correct me if I'm wrong, if we bash the Hemi with it's 6.1L V8 and 390Hp, but it get's 14 - 15mpg, all the exotic car manufucturers have done is increased the fuel consumption of their small displacement engine, to make up the extra power..........."THIS IS THE SAME FOMULA" with a small twist...........speed up the rpm and the injector flow, and you've got big numbers, but they are even LESS efficient at producing power than the domestic big blocks.

Look at the comparison:

06 Veyron W16 8.0L 1000Hp 8 / 15 mpg
06 Murcieglo V12 6.0L 660Hp 9 / 13 mpg
06 DB9 V12 ?L 440+Hp 11 / 18 mpg
06 Gallardo V10 5.0L 500Hp 11 / 18 mpg
06 F430 Ferrari V8 4.3L 400+ Hp 12 / 18 mpg
06 M5 & M6 V10 5.0L 500Hp 12 / 18 mpg
06 Hemi SRT V8 6.1L 425Hp 14 / 20 mpg
06 M3 I6 3.3L 333Hp 16 / 23 mpg
06 ZO6 Cov V8 7.0L 500Hp 16 / 26 mpg!!!

Now correct me if I'm wrong but, how the HELL does a 3.3L 6cyl consume MORE gas than a 7.0L V8, and produce 167Hp LESS Hp!!!!!! Look at the F430, cost almost 3 times the ZO6, can't catch up with it, and gives you such a crappy efficiency rate of power production, NOW THAT SUCKS in my opinion.
Ok, ok, ok, I know we are going to get the usual defenses like, exotic 'metology' or some crap, which I give props, I doubt you will ever get 10, 000rpm from your street ZO6 with the same engine for more than a month, but if I can get 500Hp at 6000rpm, I really don't need 10, 000rpm. Get the right gearing, and you can go past 200mph, get better gas mileage and save tons of $$$. Whether you are going to state that the people who buy these cars don't care about the 'gas mileage', I still think it is a rip off!

I used to have a friend that we worked with on cars, and he's sole principal when it came to engine swaps was "eh main, why'nch you slap a small block chevy in dat biatch? You'll be snatching gears all the way to third.....". I had a 95 240sx I got as a project car, and I was in the process of swapping a V6 in it, and all we could do was argue, because he kept telling me it would be much cheaper to swap that small block, get 400Hp easy with minor mods, instead of spending all that cash on expensive parts and engine tweaks and mods. I kept telling him I was in it for the props as I wanted to open a shop eventually, and that was the easy way out, and a small block couldn't handle the high RPM I wanted (this was before I knew anything about gearing and shit, so my fomula for speed was +9000rpm = +180mph). Now years later, I've sought of adopted his concept. I remember when I was reading the stats on the M5 and the ZO6, and all I could dream of, was getting a ZO6 with an M5 V10 swap, (I like the M5 & M6, but they are just too heavy)..............now all I can think of is 'slapping a small block chevy in dat biatch'.

If I'm coughing out $90, 000 + for some sports car that claims 400Hp, and drinks more gas than my moms Navigator, I think that's crap, I can understand the fuel consumption of this like F1 cars, they atleast give you +15, 000rpm and can do it for 24hrs straight........

But after looking at the numbers, are these exotics really worth the hefty price? Looking at this scenario from an enthusiasts point of view, we happily cough out the extra bling for them for the technology they poses, but with the new ZO6, hardly do they hold such a pull on me anymore, yes there folks out there with more cash than they can spend, and even more who will buy the latest Ferrari and never go past 90mph, but for the true enthusiast who is buying the car not just for shock appeal but mostly for it's performance, I think the high end price tags are highly overrated.For the price they are charging on these cars, they had better do a better job at the efficiency.

Oh, here goes another one, they made fun of the GT Stang because it's a 4.6L V8 and only produces 300Hp, while the M3 is a 3.3L 6Cyl and produces 333Hp, but the GT gets you 21 / 27 mpg, and there are Stangs out there pushing +400Hp and can still get you better consumption than the M3, and wil still leave you with over $8, 000 left in your wallet for suspension tweaks, so, can we really keep bashing Domestics with there neanderthal 'pushrod' or OHV technology???


I'd like to hear your opinion on this......................

[TatII]

the main reason for these american cars getting such good fuel economy is because of their gearing.

they have ridiculously tall 6th gears just for that sole purpose. case in point, the viper coupe and the Z06's 6th gear is so tall that at 60mph they're only going like 1350-1500 rpm top. that is barely above idle. that is how they achieve such respectable epa highway miles.

they can pull it off becasue they have a shit load of low end tq from their displacement.

[Musashi3000GT]

well my first impression is that people who care about perfromance dont give a shit about fuel economy. Maybe its just me but I seriously never look at gas prices or gas milage or any of that shit. I dont make much money but the difference between my sister's tercel and my LS2 GTO is about 40 bucks a week in gas....40 bucks! thats chump change, I spend more then 40 bucks a day on food man. so Yeah I think guys that drive fast cars dont really car about MPG.

Secondly. Dude get serious, you think the guys buying the Ferrari or the Lambo is gonna care about gas prices? If he can afford the car I think he can afford the gas.

Ok I like you also think the supercar thing is abit over reached but I dont hate on them or try to take away glory like I think you are attempting.
I think your trying to strike at and angle that no one really considers important.
example:
The guys buying the Minivans dont care about 1/4 mile times.
The girls who buy convertibles dont care about handling.
People who buy Yaris or Fits dont care about horse power.
so yeah no one cares about MPGs in a supercar and therefore your argument is absolutely meaningless.

I think you have to drive an exotic to trully understand the exotic. Its like my secretary, she dosent understand why me and my friends are so speed crazy so I told her, "your just gonna have to strap in one of these days and see what its like in order to get it".
All my associates who have Austin Martins and Ferraris and Porschas only drive them once or twice a week. the Exotic is a toy not a means of transportation....get it?

[turtlecrxsi]

I was falling to the kid's rhetoric and then I heard the Musashi speak...

It's true though. Exotic owners could care less about the price of gas. I think it's a safe bet to say that C06 owner's don't care much either.

I love speed just as much as the next (although I don't have a GTO) but I look at the prices at the pump, but hey, that's just me. But 93 is the only thing that has ever gone or will ever go in my wife's 1.8T Passat so in actuality, the price of gas doesn't mean shit.... Turbo ownz me... LOL

[TheStang00]

the deal is this, no exotics arent worth the price purely on performance. but that is not why people buy them. they buy them because of the sole fact that they are exotic. exclusive would be a good word too. i would rather drive a ford gt than a ford mustang that performed exactly the same. the people that buy these machines have lots of money to throw at the car also. but for the most part you are entirely correct. you bring up good points. however one knit pick, the 4.6l mustang engine is ohc. not a big deal though.

TatII is right on why the domestics are able to achieve the gas milage they do, but i think how they acheive the milage is irrelevant. they acheive it and thats all that matters.

[Polygon]

1. The people that buy these cars don't give a rat's ass about fuel mileage. They aren't buying these as daily drivers. Also, I think they have the money to afford the fuel since they can afford a car that is basically a toy.

2. Where did you get your figures for fuel mileage? Are they from the EPA? If so I would take them with a grain of salt. You mention the new Mustang GT getting 21/27. It doesn't get that. I had a friend come out and visit me. He has a Mustang Cobra. To make a long story short the engine in the Cobra bit the dust while he was out here and he decided to buy a brand new GT. His average MPG while he was out here ended up being about 16MPG.

3. The reason these domestic engines get better mileage isn't just gearing. How do you think they get so much power from so little displacement? They have to tune the hell out of the engine. This means that the engine has to work harder which means more fuel consumption.

4. Have you driven any of these cars? Then don't say which is better, you can't possibly know.

5. Are exotics worth it? If I had that kind of money, there are quite a few on my list that I would buy. I don't want them because they are exclusive, to get laid, or bragging rights. Every car is a different experience. Fast is simply fast. A good example would be my dad's 300M. I went with him to pick up his new Crossfire and I drove the 300M home. Even though I knew it was accelerating quickly, I didn't feel it. It didn't register on the butt dyno. The steering was dead and you got no idea what was going on through the pedals or the wheel. It was like reeling in a dead fish. Nothing like driving my GTC, I hated it. Each car is different. Straight line performance isn't everything and if that's all you care about then you're not a true car enthusiast in my opinion.

[VR43000GT]

I agree with most every in the responses. I can see maybe some Vette owners would like to have some decient mpg as oppose to 6/12 mpg. Just for the fact a lot of people that own Vettes are just regular Joe Schmo's. And people dont buy exotics for just speed. Its for performance around a track, luxury, a feeling of having something unique, and also to have as a collectors item. Some people see it as a mark of status showing you are a true enthusiast that has done well for themself. If I had the money I would have an Enzo, Veyron, and a Murceialago in the blink of an eye. But unfortunately I doubt that day will ever appear.

[CassiesMan]

First, if you can afford a supercar, then gas miliage is obviously not your number one concern. Second, who cares how a car makes power. If it makes the power, end of story. Finally, are exotics worth it? I know if I had the choice between some 8 second uber Supra/Mustang/Corvette/Skyline of d00m or a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, or Koiensszszs.a...yeah, the sweedish one? I would take the Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani, or the sweedish one.

[rice(er)]

^^^^^^agreed, they're called exotics for a reason $$$$$$$$$, people are not looking at fuel economy and the other stuff when buying an exotic $$$$$$$$$$$$ just put yourself in their shoes, $$$$$$$$$$$$ if you are financially stable and have the extra dough$ for an exotic $$$$$$$$$$$ need i make more dolla signs?

[302exploder]

yeah, if we all cared about fuel mileage, then we would just drive slow corollas like rice(er).

BTW, eleanor was a 67 gt500, not a 69

[vwracer14]

^^^^^agreed,if you want it bad enough you will pay




my k5 blazer only gets 5 mpg but i love it so much im willing to pay the prices.i dont love it enough tho to be a daily driver

[DinanM3_S2]

First of all, I know first hand that cars like the E46 M3 and E60 M5 can be driven in such a way that they get better fuel economy then what the EPA says they can get through a bit of experience with the car.

If a BMW M3 owner starts talking about how his car is only a 3.3l and makes more power then the V8 Mustang then he doesn't understand the arguement. HP/L is only for bragging rights and doesn't mean a whole lot in the real world. My M3 might have a better hp/L ratio then a Corvette Z06, but I wouldn't bet a dime on that race.

Supercars, and to a lesser extent sports cars shouldn't be looked at like any other car/truck/van/etc. When you buy a family sedan you consider things like price, size, fuel economy, and reliability. If these were the only things people cared about then there would be no such thing as a supercar, because the supercar is about the polar opposite of the family sedan. A Ferrari F430 costs way more then it costs to build, is small, gets terrible fuel economy, and you'll probably spend more on maintenence then gas, but to people like us none of that matters. When buying a sports car or a supercar the single most important thing should be whether or not you fall in love with the car. Richard Hammond of Top Gear described this as what makes you feel like a little kid again. I look at the sports car as the ultimate possibility for personal freedom unlike anything humanity has ever seen.

If you really want to understand the reasoning behind supercars go find the Top Gear supercar test through France. Clarkson has his GT, May has a F430, and Hammond has a Zonda. At the end of the segment they all give some great insight into the mentality behind the supercar. Clarkson is the Aristotle or Isaac Newton of cars.

Given the choice between a suped up Skyline GT-R and $80,000 cash or a Ferrari F430, I'd do the completely unsensible thing and get the Ferrari.

[CassiesMan]

I was just about to bring up that supercar episode...the ending at the bridge gives me goosebumps.

[-The Stig-]

Originally Posted by CassiesMan

I was just about to bring up that supercar episode...the ending at the bridge gives me goosebumps.

Also when Hammond scratches the nose of the Zonda on the ground leaving Paris.

[Elk]

The fact is exotics suck. There engines are design for HP per liter and that’s it. This is the type of person there built for:


The Corvette, Mustang, Dodge Charger etc are all built to be real car not technological show pieces that just end up sitting in some garage. Look at any used Ferrari for sell and you will find that they have almost no miles on them.