How easy was the P0171/P0174 fix for you?

[Jeckler]

There's all kinds of threads out here for the P0171/P0174, and the TSB requiring replacement of the isolator bolts and port seals. What I hadn't seen to much of, at least in one spot, was how anyone's experience went. I'd seen it here and there, but not all in one spot. So I figure if people are so inclined, they can gloat about it here.

My CEL had (notice past tense) been on for the last 4 months and I knew that I had those codes. I have seen and read Leckemby's webpage a half a dozen times. I am a decent garage mechanic, doing quite a bit of work on our '01 Windstar, '95 Taurus, and a 1968 Volkswagen. However I still had some trepidation about doing this repair. I do have to say though, that after finishing up about 20 minutes ago, that any anxiety was for naught. It took me about 2.5 hours to do it, and the first 15 minutes or so was simply cleaning up the garage from last weeks July 4th's activities. Then I had to go to Autozone to pick up a can of Deep Creep (awesome stuff, BTW) after I got the manifold off.
A couple observations:
1. In my opinion, it is not necessary to remove the cowl, unless you're planning on changing the spark plugs while you're back there. Like Leckemby, I used a piece of wood and pried up the cowl using the boss on top of the IAC. I did remove the two outer bolts holding the cowl, but looking back, I don't think that was even necessary.
2. The web page makes it out like there are 10 bazillion vacuum hoses to disconnect. There's about 5. And the only way you'll forget where they go is if you have ADHD (oh look, something shiny!).
3. Cleaning the ports and mating surfaces. I used a scotch brite pad and paint thinner. Works great, but don't go crazy with pressure. I used a small scrwewdriver to clean the little bit of junk in the EGR ports, then hosed it all down with Deep Creep.
4. The torque measurements are 89 IN.lbs., not ft.lbs. So 7.5 ft lbs is right (7.41something, but who's counting, right?).
5. The baffle looks like it can go in either way, but guess again. I had to take it back off and stare for a minute before I saw that the ribs go on the throttle body side.

Make sure that if you use something like Deep Creep or Seafoam that garage door is open or you do this in the driveway. It makes quite a cloud of smoke at first.
The test drive was pretty much uneventful. The butt dyno seemed a little more powerful, but who knows. I did fill it up with gas and we'll see what the mileage looks like. Before the repair, I was averaging 17mpg.
I paid $60.32 for the bolts and $14.34 for the seals from the local small town Ford dealer.

So, how was it for you?

EDIT: Spelling and grammar.

[phil-l]

My isolator TSB story:

I never did get any CEL or codes - but I got tons of pinging when running regular gas. At first, I just thought it was bad gas (it went away if I topped-off with premium or added some octane booster) - but it became consistent, and slowly got worse over time. I started with basic tune-up items, but eventually realized that I must have the vacuum leaks that come with the isolator bolt problem.

I used the leckemby.net procedure, which is a valuable resource for the DIYer. It took me about 3 1/2 hours, but I spent a lot of time cleaning things that probably didn't need cleaning. My EGR ports barely had any deposits (at about 75K miles).

As I've discussed in other threads on this board, I replaced the valve cover with the redesigned version - but I should have just modified the baffle of my old cover, which would have done the same thing and saved some $.

Related story about how widespread this problem is: I bought all of the parts from my local Ford dealer. The person behind the counter had a question about the valve cover part number, so he yelled to someone in the back - who recited the correct part number FROM MEMORY. Yeah, they've seen a lot of these.

The van has run fine since the repair; pinging is gone. I will mention that my DPFE failed a month or so after I did the isolator bolt TSB, but that's a common and easily-replaced item.

I posted a few pictures of my repair, but they're not much different from those you'd see elsewhere:

http://community.webshots.com/album/551942761oSNGgS

[Tomb stone]

It took me about 5 hours to finish but I’m kind of a perfectionist when it comes to cleaning and inspecting every part I can get to. I took off the cowl because I knew I wanted to change the plugs but I probably would have removed it anyway, only took about 10 minuets and gave me twice as much room to work in. this also allows you to remove and clean the A/C intake filter. Mine was full of leaves and grass.

Phil-l, your right about Ford dealers memorizing the part #s. I called our local dealer to get a price check. I didn’t tell him what vehicle I needed parts for, I just gave him the part #s listed on the TSB. I only got about 5 numbers out when he finished the sequence for me and said “isolator bolts for a Windstar” and told me he had all the parts I needed in stock. I did ask him when Ford was going to come clean and pay for all this mess. He said if that happens, they’ll be shelling out checks to the owner of every Windstar (Duh!).

I probably would have ordered the parts from www.TeamFordParts.com if I had time to wait on the mail. The parts are about $25.00 cheaper there (shipping is only about $6.00) But I’m going on a long road trip in 4 days and needed to get it done this weekend. With my luck, they would have sent me the old “black” bolts anyway.

All and all, the project rates about as difficult as changing break pads (pretty easy). The only tools you need is a pair of pliers, an adjustable wrench, an 8mm and 10mm deep-well socket and ratchet, and a screwdriver. I also recommend changing the spark plugs with a set of double platinum. I didn’t get the fuel regulator hose ($13.00) I just zip-tied it tighter to the intake port. I also recommended you just modify your own valve cover (there’s no reason spend $60.00 when you can fill in a hole and file a notch)

Jeckler, I feel like we’re brothers already. I’ve got a ’00 Windstar, two ’95 Taurus’s (SE 3.8, and a GL 3.0) and a 74 VW. They all keep my tools from collecting dust, (along with my ’84 Chevy Citation and ’93 pick-up), but I would drive any of them across the country tomorrow.

TOM

[road_rascal]

Just for my own info, what are the possibilities of my '01 with 70k throwing this code? What years had the most problems? So far my van has been running great. I am keeping extra $$$ in savings just in case though...

[bhorn]

That's too funny. And here I was thinknig I was unique.

1998 Windstar

1974 VW Std. Beetle

[lyran]

Mine took about 4 hours, but it was hot out and I took my time. I'm glad I removed the cowling, its just easier with more space to work. Another delay was when tightening the isolator bolts, just as it was snug, I heard pop. I thought AAAGH! $$$ out the window. I found it was far too easy to break the bolts themselves. After the first one popped, I had to remove everything and used some pliers to back out the stub. After some thinking I realized I could pop out the old bolt from the old shoulder washer and put it in the new one. So I did that and when putting it back together again, pop, another one broke. I was barely tightening it! This one held together enough that I could use the wrench to remove it. When I got it out, it fell into two parts in my hand. I then inspected the others and they all have some kind of defect on the shaft part where there are no threads. Plus I think they are zinc and the old ones are steel. So I replaced all the new bolts from the new shoulder washers replacing them with the old ones.

After the drive cycles I got the P0401 code. (huge thanks to Autozone for reading my codes for free!) So I diagnosed the EGR with the human vacuum and decided the problem is probably the DPFE. A new DPFE at the stealership cost $79 USD !!! Wow thats just plain gouging for a part that should have been free because of the crappy design.

I pulled the old DPFE and read here that one of the leads inside the thing was disconnected. So before opening the $79 bag, I dedided to crack open the old DPFE and look. Sure enough, there isin't even solder holding the lead to the pad! I just can't believe Ford gouges its customers like this. I soldered the lead to its pad and soldered the other two leads also. I used gorilla glue (isin't that stuff amazing?) to seal it all back together and proudly returned the unopened DPFE to the stealership reclaiming my hard earned $82.95 (plus tax).

I posted this to thank you one and all for automotive forums, and the helpful advice everyone here offers.

[karman]

son's 200 had this problem. Cost him $800+ to have new manifold installed to fix a Ford Know problem. Common enough problem.

[bruker]

Please see this thread.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=487720

[Jeckler]

Tomb Stone and bhorn, how long have you two been "into" VW's? I've had them for better than 20 years, with only one 4 year period without. The '68 I picked up back in January.

Road Rascal, mileage doesn't seem to matter too much. Some people report it at 50k, others at 150k (that's where my '01 is at). If the CEL comes on, have the codes checked, simple as that.

lyran, seems hard to believe that the bolts broke with that little torque. Must have been a bad batch. And you got royally screwed on the DPFE, I paid $31 and change at the local Ford dealer. My DPFE went kaput about a year ago. Good job on fixing yours though.

karman, sounds like your son had the linkage fall off the IMRC (or whatever they're called) butterflies, or the seals were gone. I read a recent thread where someone made their own to replace it, since the linkage is not available separately.

bruker, you work pretty quick. According to the TSB, shop time is anywhere from 1.6-1.9 hrs. depending on what needs to be done.

[bhorn]

Originally Posted by Jeckler

Tomb Stone and bhorn, how long have you two been "into" VW's? I've had them for better than 20 years, with only one 4 year period without. The '68 I picked up back in January.

My pop bought a '68 for $200 back in 1990 when I was 13. Decent body, needed floorpans, didn't run. Over the course of the next 3 years, I learned how to work on cars.

I missed that car so much that last year I picked a '74 on a whim, and I couldn't be happier. It's so nice to work a car that doesn't have computers.

Not sure if you've discovered it yet, but www.thesamba.com is THE BEST resource on the web for air-cooled VW's.

[Jeckler]

Oh yea, I've heard of it.

[Tomb stone]

OFF TOPIC ABOUT VWs

The ’74 Volkswagen (standard) I have was my first car. It was a gift from my grandmother and father for Christmas in 1988. The car has been in the family since it was bought in 1974 by my uncle. It was a “showroom” car at the dealer that had many options installed (auto-stick transmission, dealer installed air conditioner, trailer hitch). My uncle used it to drive it to Ky. Lake in the summer pulling a 12’ johnboat with the A/C running. He died in 1984 and my grandfather used it until he died in 1986. My grandmother than drove it for a few years until my dad arranged to get it for me for the great sum of $400.00.
I only had it a year until I blew the engine. I learned a valuable lesson about how much suction the squirrel-cage engine fan makes. I had kept a rag wedged in the back of the engine compartment to check the oil for a few months. One day, on a long highway drive, the rag sucked up in the fan and overheated the engine. I didn’t notice it until I saw the large, black smoke trail I was leaving.
Since then, I have almost had every part off the car to clean, inspect or paint. It’s still a reliable car that I drive. I just took on 900-mile trip a few months ago and had no problems whatsoever.
TOM

[diveman1669]

hi there.

i am reading all about the codes P171/174 and found your thread.

Please HELP!!

My windstar 95 was not showing any code at all - that was until i went for a state inspection. Now it failed due to these codes and i am trying to fix this problem - would this be the same problem in the 95 year??

It seems much harder to do the fix shown.

i also found a crushed hose... would this also give me the same codes ?

any advise would be much helpful.....

thanks

[wiswind]

The TSB for P0171 / P0174 that is commonly discussed here is for the 1999 and newer windstar. The '96 through '98 use a different upper intake manifold, that while a black composite, is thicker, and does not have the bolt isolator breakdown issue.
The 1995 uses a aluminium upper intake manifold....and...from what I understand, does not use the "cross port induction" which is what all the IMRC stuff is about.
Your issue is still due to a vaccum leak.....and a crushed vaccum line can be the cause. Also look for cracks, loose vaccum line connections, etc.

[dandi]

I finally got around to doing this fix today, using the excellent http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html website. I ordered the needed parts from www.teamfordlv.com (cost- $41.66 including shipping) and also replaced the cabin and air filters while I was at it. The plugs are only 30k miles old so I left them alone. Total cost of parts was $74.64. It took me 4 hours including removal/replacement of the cowl. I decided to do that just so I had plenty of room to get at everything.

The only thing I didn't do was remove all of the vacuum lines from the back of the intake plenum. Instead, I rotated the plenum up (this is the lower half) and used a bungee cord to keep it out of the way. I was still able to easily replace the 6 gaskets.

The lower plenum had oil actually puddled in it, and most of the isolator bolts were awash in oil. No wonder I could smell the stuff all of the time. The tops of the intake ports weren't too bad overall, they cleaned up well with acetone. The EGR ports were almost completely blocked by crud.

When I restarted the car, it was a GREAT feeling to see that CEL go out after almost a year of it being displayed!!! The car runs great and I'm looking forward to checking the gas mileage!

Thanks to everyone here, and especially 'Lekemby' for his great site and KDS for his updates. It was a simple job that used simple hand tools, and I'd encourage everyone to save $800 - $1000 dollars and do this themselves.

I took a few snaps as I went through it - they are here -
http://s24.photobucket.com/albums/c3...tar%20Project/

Now on to cleaning out the drvier's door latch to get the autlocking working again.....

Dan D
Central NJ USA