Engine cranks over but it won't start, need help

[CIVICDX92]

My 92 civic won't start.
The engine cranks over but does not start at all. not sure what the problem can be if any one has any ideas and would like to help I thank you.
My son drove the car to school and then had to be towed home.

Thanks,
Joe

[Ballroom Heros]

Check the main relay. Also check to see if you are getting spark and listen to see if your fuel pump primes when you turn the key.

[vette_7t9]

good advice from above. check spark plugs for correct order also. good luck.

[CIVICDX92]

Thanks guys,

I checked everything I could think of after I asked for help.
I still need help.
Coil is good.
Fuel pump made no sound tested relay as described on the manual it seems good but when key is turned on no sound like it should.
So I disconnected the relay from the fuel pump relay connector and jumped pins 5 and 7 With a jumper wire and tested the voltage at the fuel pump terminal it all checks out.
But when I plugged relay and pump, turned on the key nothing happened no noise so I disconnected the relay installed the jumper in pins 5 and 7 with the fuel pump connected turned the key fuel pump stared and the fuel pressure was up to 40 + psi at the fuel filter with my home made gauge.
Now I fallowed the relay testing procedure could I’ve done something wrong? Maybe!
I checked the relays continuity is there another way to test the relay to make sure before I buy a new relay?

Thanks,

Joe

[Ballroom Heros]

Connect a 12 volt source to the positive and negative poles and the realy should make a click sound. Really though, if the pump won't function when the relay is in, but will when the terminals are jumped, it's the relay, no question about it.

[CIVICDX92]

Hi,

Relay test was good relay not the problem.
Coil test good.
I'm not getting any fuel pressure!
I do get fuel pressure when I bypass the relay but engine doesn't start.
All connectins are good.
Maybe I’m missing something here.
I checked for engine trouble codes none came up.
Could it be the ECM?
Timing belt maybe?


Thanks,

[fiberglasscivic]

Replace the relay and see if it fixes the prob. If you have a friend with a civic that will let you borrow theirs, that's the quickest and cheapest way to find out. If it's not that then you need to look at possibly replacing the fuel pump.

[CIVICDX92]

It's me again,

It seems that no one else has had this type of problem before.
I've replaced both the fuel pump and the relay and nothing I still have no fuel pressure.

if I don't find out what is happening soon I'll have to take it in.

Thanks.

[CIVICDX92]

Here I go again,

Checked and replaced fuel pump relay no fix.
Checked and replaced fuel pump no fix.
Checked and replaced ICM along with Coil no fix.
What I’m I missing here guys?

Thanks,

[fiberglasscivic]

Jump pins 5 and 7 and try to crank the car. If it runs then that's where you're problem is. Did you return each part that you checked and replaced? Sounds to me like an electrical problem. What relay are you talking about when you say the fuel pump relay? Is it the main relay under the dash on the driver side? If you jumped pins 5 and 7 like you said and that caused you're fuel pump to kick on when the ignition switch was turned to the on posistion and it didn't do that before you jumped the pins then the main relay is a problem. Now that you've replaced that I am going to assume that you left the new one in and went from there. Now when you turn your car to run (with out trying to crank it) can you here the fuel pump prime? If not you may have blown a fuse. Check the ECU fuse in the under the hood fuse box. If that fuse is good, then the relay is bad.

If you can hear the pump prime when the ignition is in the run position (with out trying to crank) then you need to try to crank the car. If the car still doesn't crank over, you need to check you're basics again. Check fuel pressure (should be 40 PSI at the fuel filter under the hood.) Check spark at the plugs by removing 1 plug at a time and having someone try to crank the car. Hold the plug very close to a bolt or something metal on the engine and you should see a spark at intervals. If there is no spark you may have a bad plug wire or something wrong with the ignition system. If the spark is constant then the distribution rotor in the distributor could be stuck. It is possible that there could be further damage.

Let us know when you've done this.

[CIVICDX92]

Originally Posted by fiberglasscivic

Jump pins 5 and 7 and try to crank the car. If it runs then that's where you're problem is. (No it doesn't run just cranks over) Did you return each part that you checked and replaced? (Not yet I figured that the car has over 188k miles on it & is over 13yrs old it would be worth keeping them but it's still up in the air) Sounds to me like an electrical problem. (YES I THINK SO) What relay are you talking about when you say the fuel pump relay? Is it the main relay under the dash on the driver side? (Yes the same one) If you jumped pins 5 and 7 like you said and that caused you're fuel pump to kick on when the ignition switch was turned to the on posistion and it didn't do that before you jumped the pins then the main relay is a problem.(You would think so but I'm still getting the same problem with the new relay What R the odds the new relay is bad?) Now that you've replaced that I am going to assume that you left the new one in and went from there. (Yes I did) Now when you turn your car to run (with out trying to crank it) can you here the fuel pump prime? (NO) If not you may have blown a fuse. (The books tells you to check fuse #2 which I did fuse is fine & when I checked for voltage I got 12VDC going to the relay) Check the ECU fuse in the under the hood fuse box. ( ) If that fuse is good, then the relay is bad. (Even the new relay?)

If you can hear the pump prime when the ignition is in the run position (with out trying to crank) then you need to try to crank the car. (done that NOTHING) If the car still doesn't crank over, you need to check you're basics again. Check fuel pressure (should be 40 PSI at the fuel filter under the hood.) (I got 40 psig) Check spark at the plugs by removing 1 plug at a time and having someone try to crank the car. Hold the plug very close to a bolt or something metal on the engine and you should see a spark at intervals. If there is no spark you may have a bad plug wire or something wrong with the ignition system. (I replaced the igniter and coil but about a month or so ago I had a local shop give it a tune-up & they replaced the wires??) If the spark is constant then the distribution rotor in the distributor could be stuck. (How do i check this?) It is possible that there could be further damage.

Let us know when you've done this.

Thanks for your feed back I really Appreciate it.
I know you guys are just as bussy as I'm abd for you to take the time to help others is great specially when some of us really need the help.
You will find my answers to your questions in blue I hope it shows.
I had someone else suggest checking the MAP sensor and the ECM.
I have to get a vacuum pump to test the MAP sensor.
But when I checked for 5vdc like they suggested guess what I got no voltage only .245mv reading.
What I need to do is like you said find someone with another civic that is running and is willing to swap parts so I can find the part I need.
MAP Sensor cost $200.00+
ECM Unit cost $700.00+

Once again thanks and I keep you up to date as I get to the solution.

Joe

[fiberglasscivic]

I really think that relay is bad. I take it you have a voltmeter seeing as how you were able to to give me a .245mv reading. I'm going to tell you how to test the relay. You can test it while it's wired up as long as you can access pins 1, 5, and 7. I need to know if the voltmeter you have can test ohms or if it has a continuity checker built in. Ohms is the weird looking horseshoe and continuity would be where you can touch the leads together and the meter beeps.

I haven't looked at my main relay in a long time and right now it would be too difficult to look exactly to see if you can do this but I'm sure you can. If you can slide the plug down a hair, just enough to be able to touch each pin with a test lead but not so much that you disconnect the relay, you can test each of the three pins to see if there's correct voltage comming out of the relay. Ground your common to the chassis and then test pin 1 with the key out of the ingnition. It should read 12VDC (or something close). If pin one doesn't have 12VDC then you need to check for a dead battery or a blown battery fuse (under the hood fuse box). If you get 12 V then you need to put the key in and turn to start, but don't crank. Check pin 5 for 12V. If it doesn't read then you need to check 2 fuses, the IG fuse under the hood and the ACG (S) fuse under the dash.

If either pin doesn't check out and all the fuses are good then you have a cut or broken line somewhere between the main relay and the under the hood fuse box or the under the dash fuse box depending on which one doesn't read. Let me know if you come across this. This is very uncommon if there hasn't been electrical modifications to the car.

Next you need to check pin 7 but only if everything else checked out OK. With the key in the ignition in the run posistion you should read 12VDC at pin 7. If not the relay is bad, even if it is a new one. Take it back and exchange it. If everything checks out then the relay is good. Now comes the fun part.

If the relay checked out then you may have a broken connection somewhere between the relay at pin 7 and the terminal. The reason it would have primed when you jumped the pins is because you moved it just enough to make contact but when you moved it to hook up the plug it disconnected. Once again this is very uncommon unless there have been electrical modifications to the car.

Get back to me when you checked the relay. If the relay you have in now checks out to be OK, you should check the other relay as well. If it's good then you can return the new one and get your money back. I'll look at my relay tomorrow and change the post if there is an easier way to check it in the harness.

Once again I need to know if your meter has an ohms funtion (horseshoe) or continuity checker (BEEEEEP). This will make checking for broken wires a lot easier.

[fiberglasscivic]

Originally Posted by CIVICDX92

Check spark at the plugs by removing 1 plug at a time and having someone try to crank the car. Hold the plug very close to a bolt or something metal on the engine and you should see a spark at intervals. If there is no spark you may have a bad plug wire or something wrong with the ignition system. (I replaced the igniter and coil but about a month or so ago I had a local shop give it a tune-up & they replaced the wires??) If the spark is constant then the distribution rotor in the distributor could be stuck. (How do i check this?)

Are you wanting to know how to check the rotor? There are three screws on the outside of the dizzy. Loosen each untill the cap comes off and the circle thing in the center is the rotor. If you like you can remove the dizzy from the cam by loosing the three bolts holding it to the head. This will allow you to check whether or not the rotor spins free. Also check the contacts inside the cap that lead to where the spark plug wires hook up and they should look somewhat clean espesially if you just had a tune up done. This isn't nessecsary unless you are only getting constant spark on one wire. If there is spark on all wires then the rotor should be good.

[CIVICDX92]

Once again I need to know if your meter has an ohms funtion (horseshoe) or continuity checker (BEEEEEP). This will make checking for broken wires a lot easier.[/quote]

Hi fiberglasscivic,

I have a Radio Shack true RMS digital multi-meter.
It has both functions.

First of all thank you for all your input on this problem of mine.

Today I took to work my MAP sensor and with the help of my coworker we hooked it up to a power supply.

Sensor has 3 pins from left to right is labeled as.
Pin 1. V = voltage in (set @ 5VDC).
Pin 2. G = Ground.
Pin 3. O = output voltage to ECM unit.
*(I called Honda to make sure letters meant as labeled)
The reading on the meter was 2.8VDC with zero vacuum.
As we applied a vacuum to the sensor the output reading decreased.
That means the sensor is good right?

[fiberglasscivic]

I belive so. When you check your main relay. If you come across any problems where I said that wires may have been cut then you can use the continuity checker to test the wires from one end to the other to help determine if that wire is bad. Let me know when you check that relay.