Code P1441 and other issues...please help...

SNKPWR · #1 06-16-2006, 10:21 AM

my in-laws' 97 formula auto...a local f-bod specialist had told them the charcoal canister's diaphragm had gone bad and charcoal had gotten into an attached solenoid and that this was causing the code to be set off...

first of all, does this sound correct?

second, where is the charcoal canister on this car (without having to go buy a haynes manual)?

i'm a mustang guy, so i'm used to the charcoal canister always being under the hood, but i didn't see it there on the bird...

additionally, sometimes it won't start right away in the morning....say, every third morning, it will crank and crank, but not fire...then a few minutes later when it does fire, it runs perfectly normal...no hesitation while driving, and feels very strong...i'm thinking maybe the fuel pump is starting to go? i'm guessing its in-tank...how hard is that to get to? drop the tank?

oh, and also, the solenoid/magnet thing that locks the shifter button until you push on the brake acts up in the mornings...when you start the car, it won't let you push the button in to shift out of park...then after the car runs for a few minutes you can push the button and shift...i took the shift console piece off, and saw that this unit is riveted to the shifter body...when i unplug this unit you don't even have to push the brake to shift out of park, so i guess that is a temp fix (although not the safest)...so i suppose it's like GP's, you have to replace the whole shifter?

thanks for any help...

SNKPWR · #2 06-18-2006, 08:12 PM

hmmm....i guess this isn't like the GP section...no tech here?

P.S. i replaced the purge solenoid, and it seems to have gotten rid of the SES light....

also picked up a fuel pressure gage, and key-on pressure is in the mid-upper 20s, but when you start it, it floats around 32 psi...haynes manual says it supposed to be 41-47 at key-on, and drop 3-10 at idle...so i guess it's low overall...does this sound like fuel pump going bad?

Mr. Luos · #3 06-18-2006, 08:26 PM

Yes it does.

That charcoal can issue I have heard can be a problem with the LT1 cars also, so I bet that was the problem.

Make sure you keep an eye on that fuel pressure. Don't let it drop too low. I wish I could tell you what too low is on the LT1, but I don't know for certain.

SNKPWR · #4 06-19-2006, 12:36 PM

i appreciate the input...i took it out today, and while driving, it started stumbling...no SES light, but it felt like a car does when it's running out of gas...then a half mile later it was fine again...maybe it IS the fuel pump...

wrightz28 · #5 06-19-2006, 02:30 PM

Pressure is "almost" the same for all MPFI from TPI, Ltx LSx, average pressure at about 40-45 psi, I think the LSx runs a tad higher, but should be in the ballpark. Bare minimum is high 30's at idle, so I would start thinking about replacing that pump before it strands somebody somewhere.

BUT, how about some preventive maint.? When was the filter replaced? Does your gauge allow for flow testing?

SNKPWR · #6 06-20-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrightz28

Pressure is "almost" the same for all MPFI from TPI, Ltx LSx, average pressure at about 40-45 psi, I think the LSx runs a tad higher, but should be in the ballpark. Bare minimum is high 30's at idle, so I would start thinking about replacing that pump before it strands somebody somewhere.

BUT, how about some preventive maint.? When was the filter replaced? Does your gauge allow for flow testing?

yeah i think i'm going to replace the pump asap...filter was replace about a year ago i'm told...wouldn't hurt to change it again i suppose, not like it's difficult or expensive...gage does not allow for flow testing...

SNKPWR · #7 06-20-2006, 02:59 PM

did some more driving with the gage hooked up today...at idle w/ a/c on max it was holding around 25 psi, WOT at high RPM was ~16-17 psi minimum...w/out a/c on at idle was ~28 psi, dropped to ~20 psi at WOT high rpm (slowly dropped from 24-20 as RPM's increased)...also when i shut the car off the pressure would slowly rise up to 42 psi (over the course of about 2 minutes) and stop...once again i couldn't duplicate the no-start or the stutter while driving (of course not, i had the gage hooked up, duh!)....

any input on these most recent findings?

SNKPWR · #8 06-21-2006, 10:50 AM

ok, another update....replaced the fuel filter, and seems to have helped, but only slightly...now idle pressure is up to 31...LOL

DarkblueTA · #9 06-22-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrightz28

Pressure is "almost" the same for all MPFI from TPI, Ltx LSx, average pressure at about 40-45 psi, I think the LSx runs a tad higher, but should be in the ballpark. Bare minimum is high 30's at idle, so I would start thinking about replacing that pump before it strands somebody somewhere.

BUT, how about some preventive maint.? When was the filter replaced? Does your gauge allow for flow testing?

I'd agree with this and PSI on LSx's are around 58.

gmtech79 · #10 06-22-2006, 08:53 PM

sounds like a restricted fuel filter put too much strain on fuel pump. Try and get a volume test done on it. Also see how much current it is drawing should be in the neighborhood of 6 to 8 amps more or less will indicate a problem.

DarkblueTA · #11 06-23-2006, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmtech79

sounds like a restricted fuel filter put too much strain on fuel pump. Try and get a volume test done on it. Also see how much current it is drawing should be in the neighborhood of 6 to 8 amps more or less will indicate a problem.

Our systems work off of pressure, not volume. Although I think what you're trying to say is see how much fuel is making it past the filter. So you've got either a filter blockage(but he just replaced it), a bad pump/wires or a very clogged up fuel rail/lines/injectors.

gmtech79 · #12 06-23-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkblueTA

Our systems work off of pressure, not volume. Although I think what you're trying to say is see how much fuel is making it past the filter. So you've got either a filter blockage(but he just replaced it), a bad pump/wires or a very clogged up fuel rail/lines/injectors.

Trust me, you can have good psi but if it doesn't have the volume it won't run good. Look for about 10 oz. in 10 seconds.

SNKPWR · #13 06-23-2006, 12:54 PM

thanks for the input guys...i'm going to check current draw at the relay, i'll post back...

FormulaLT1 · #14 06-23-2006, 09:56 PM

If the pressure doesn;t rise to around 47 with the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator pulled. The pump is no good which I suspect from those super low numbers anyway. A healthy pump under full idle vacuum should still register at least 37 PSI. The canister is in the driver side rear quarter panel. It has vacuum lines that run from the tank. I can't imagine how you would get to it without removing the tank.

SNKPWR · #15 06-24-2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FormulaLT1

If the pressure doesn;t rise to around 47 with the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator pulled. The pump is no good which I suspect from those super low numbers anyway. A healthy pump under full idle vacuum should still register at least 37 PSI. The canister is in the driver side rear quarter panel. It has vacuum lines that run from the tank. I can't imagine how you would get to it without removing the tank.

thanks....yeah with the FPR hose pulled off, it still has low pressure...

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