90 JC, Shifting problem! PLEASE HELP!

[genus3041]

You guys are the best! The last time I posted on here I got the answer I needed within a few hours and I was relieved to find out it was nothing serious. Thanks a ton!

I drive a 90 jeep Cherokee 4.0 L 4WD Manual 5-speed w/ 158K on it. Recently ive noticed that its gotten harder and harder to shift into first gear, its like there is some kind of mechanism keeping me from being able to push it into first. No gears grind or anything like that it just doesn’t let me push it in. It does the same thing but progressively less on all the other gears even when im downshifting. My clutch is pushed all the way in and I even tried revving my RPMs right before shifting (something my dad said would help) but it only seems to get worse as time goes on, its gotten to the point where im scared to drive it anywhere because I cant move after stopping at a red light! Please help me!

[fredjacksonsan]

When stopped, is it hard to put it into any gear?

If you are coming to a stop and get it into first, then stop, does there seem to be a drag on the engine?


Either one of these indicate to me that you need a new clutch. It could be worn synchronizers in the trans, but usually that only affects a couple of gears, not all of them. I'd look into the clutch; at 150K it may be ready for one.

[genus3041]

No, most of the time its just hard to put in first or second when im stoped. Although the other gears are still sometimes hard.

[fredjacksonsan]

Yeah, I'd have the clutch looked at.

[genus3041]

Dang it... thats gonna put me back a few bucks )-:

[genus3041]

Do you think it may be the hydraulics?

[genus3041]

Ok i got it back from the shop, they said it was an internal leak in the hydraulics that made it so there wasnt enough pressure when i pushed on the clutch to put it into gear. This made the car think the clutch wasnt pushed in at all and thus wouldnt let me push it into first, the reason it got easier in later gears is because when i got going faster i built up pressure in the hydraulics so i could change gears easily. The whole fix is gonna put me back about $700.

[Ray H]

Originally Posted by genus3041

Ok i got it back from the shop, they said it was an internal leak in the hydraulics that made it so there wasnt enough pressure when i pushed on the clutch to put it into gear. This made the car think the clutch wasnt pushed in at all and thus wouldnt let me push it into first, the reason it got easier in later gears is because when i got going faster i built up pressure in the hydraulics so i could change gears easily. The whole fix is gonna put me back about $700.

You should get a second opinion. The part about "building up pressure in the hydraulics when going faster" is BS. The only pressure in the hydraulic clutch is the pressure you creat when you push the clutch pedal, doesnt matter how fast you are going.
I dont think its a clutch problem at all. You should hear some kind of grinding while trying to put it in gear if the clutch wasnt disengaging. Im putting my money on linkage problem. With the vehicle shut off and sitting still, is it still hard to put in gear?

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by Ray H

You should get a second opinion. The part about "building up pressure in the hydraulics when going faster" is BS. The only pressure in the hydraulic clutch is the pressure you creat when you push the clutch pedal, doesnt matter how fast you are going.
I dont think its a clutch problem at all. You should hear some kind of grinding while trying to put it in gear if the clutch wasnt disengaging. Im putting my money on linkage problem. With the vehicle shut off and sitting still, is it still hard to put in gear?

It IS possible for there to be a leak in the hydraulic clutch that would bleed off the pressure as it is built up. It fits with the symptoms.

I bet if you push the clutch in really fast it would work.....better.....sort of.

[Ray H]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

It IS possible for there to be a leak in the hydraulic clutch that would bleed off the pressure as it is built up. It fits with the symptoms.

I bet if you push the clutch in really fast it would work.....better.....sort of.

Oh, I read what they told him as "the clutch hydraulic system would build up more pressure as he DROVE faster"and thats just not the case. I agree that if he pushes the clutch more or faster, the pressure would temporarily build.
I still think that if the clutch isnt disengaging all the way the symptoms would be hard to shift OUT of a given gear but will grind and lurtch when shifting from neutral INTO gear. He said it didnt grind or lurtch. Try shifting yours without using the clutch or with it pushed half way in.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by Ray H

Oh, I read what they told him as "the clutch hydraulic system would build up more pressure as he DROVE faster"and thats just not the case. I agree that if he pushes the clutch more or faster, the pressure would temporarily build.
I still think that if the clutch isnt disengaging all the way the symptoms would be hard to shift OUT of a given gear but will grind and lurtch when shifting from neutral INTO gear. He said it didnt grind or lurtch. Try shifting yours without using the clutch or with it pushed half way in.

Exactly...hydraulic clutch pressure has nothing to do with the speed of the vehicle.

If you get the vehicle to the right speed, you can shift without the clutch but that doesn't help at stoplights.

I don't know enough about the clutch on there to suggest a solution, but it seems as if a replacement is in order --- at a different shop.

[Ray H]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

Exactly...hydraulic clutch pressure has nothing to do with the speed of the vehicle.

If you get the vehicle to the right speed, you can shift without the clutch but that doesn't help at stoplights.

I don't know enough about the clutch on there to suggest a solution, but it seems as if a replacement is in order --- at a different shop.

You can shift easily and smoothly without using the clutch but you have to match engine speed to transmission speed. Its common practice in big trucks. Actually in big trucks you have to match engine and tranny speed while using the clutch also because the transmissions arent synched.
It may very well be a clutch problem but my money is on linkage or shift fork. A good way to find out if its the clutch or linkage is to try shifting it without the clutch. If it shifts fine, then its a clutch problem, if its still hard to get in gear, it could be a tranny problem.

[genus3041]

So the shop called me today, they said my clutch needed to be fixed too... is this consistent with the problem? or should i go somewhere else cuz there trying to milk me?

[fredjacksonsan]

If the hydraulics have been failing, and not letting your clutch fully engage, you could have a lot of extra wear on the clutch. You said the problem has been going on for awhile, and at 158k investing in a new clutch is a good idea.

-edit- IMO, anyway.