Some dealers getting greedy.....

mrsnetpro · #1 07-31-2002, 12:19 PM

While there is a dealership in my area that will order a vehicle for me, with no estimated date of delivery, there is another one that opened within the last month. Someone talked Nissan into promising delivery of 17 vehicles, of which the dealer took orders from a few. I stopped by this dealership, told them what I wanted and then was told that I would have the option of selecting one of these 17 vehicles in case I wanted one sooner. Then the ole "I am going to be honest with you" line appeared and I was told that I would be required to pay "up to 5000 over list! Needless to say I told him "no way"

. So then he says well, I can't sell it for list, but I can sell it for between 1-2000 over. Again, I said no and he tries to tell me that NO dealer will sell these cars for list price. Given the markup is already somewhere around 15-18%, who would really want them to make 33%???

The real question is that if NO dealership in my area would even let me order one for list price how could I buy one? Of couse, that wont happen, but why can a dealership refuse to place an order for msrp?

vanstorm16 · #2 07-31-2002, 01:18 PM

I think that this is an issue of pre-ordering vs. trying to buy a car off the lot. Many people on here have paid msrp by ordering so the option does exist. Sounds like they're setting up a situation where people will bid on the cars and pay a premium for them. How many dealers are there in your area? Are you limited to the two that you refer to?

Here in Canada, msrp is set at about $2200 CAD over dealer invoice so the margins are quite low (like 5%, on all models!)

mrsnetpro · #3 07-31-2002, 01:51 PM

they would NOT order one for me at list, nor sell me one of these "promised" one's at msrp either. I could see giving the salesman $100 for the courtesy of a "they have arrived" phone call, but nothing to a dealership.

There are two nearby (within a 20 mile radius).

carlson · #4 08-01-2002, 02:17 AM

I would say dont pay over MSRP for this car.... Wait a bit....

If you really want it bad, I guess $1K is ok.......

LS1Steve · #5 08-02-2002, 03:11 PM

If you don't want to pay over MSRP, then you won't be getting one for a while.
The pre-orders were sold at $3k above MSRP and the available ones will be on the lot at the same price so the base model will start at $29k. There will be little room for negotiation, its a simple case of supply and demand. This is one of those rare cases where if a buyer says "drop the price or I walk" we will be able to say "lemme get the door for you.... NEXT!"
:smoker2:

btw, ours are expected in before the 15th.

carlson · #6 08-02-2002, 04:52 PM

Steve,

350Z will be in, on the 15th???? How many cars???? I wanna come look at them. Maybe I'd just fall in love with it and willing to pay $3K over.

rasputin · #7 09-10-2002, 09:16 AM

stealerships suck.

Steve, I guess I applaud your honesty, but its too bad that enthusiasts who can't afford a $3-5k premium on an already not inexpensive car must wait so that the dealer can suck some extra blood from the public while the getting is good.

Of course, if consumers had the patience and guts to unite and refuse to purchase any car for over MSRP, dealers would have no choice.

$.01 says neither will occur.

vin1024 · #8 09-10-2002, 04:25 PM

Just the tone of Steve's (nissan dealer salesperson) email makes me cringe. Buying a car is always an unpleasant experience, dealing with these car salespeople. Nissan, in particular, is known for its unpleasant dealer experience -- and I think that is why Nissan is pushing dealers to sell the 350Z at MSRP and create a better experience for potential Nissan customers.

I guess this is not happening.

Remember, Nissan is building at least 30000 of these next year. This is not a collector's item. If you want one, you can have one. Let these greedy dealers twist in the wind -- wait a six to eight months until everyone has gone back to buying SUVs and then buy a Z at below MSRP. That's what I am going to do.

LS1Steve · #9 09-10-2002, 07:48 PM

I actually don't work there anymore, didn't have the time with everything else I have going on. But you have to realize, it is a business, and a dealer will try to take you for every cent they possible can. As a salesman/closer, If I get another $100 out of you, thats $25 in my pocket (at least). We are here to make money. And in special cases like the 350Z, there is high demand. Its a good car, we know it, you know it, the only difference is...we HAVE it, you just WANT it. You have more customers like yourself to compete with in GETTING it than we have other dealers to compete with in SELLING it so that gives us an advantage. Simple economics.

vin1024 · #10 09-10-2002, 08:19 PM

Steve. You think demand for the Z will remain at these levels for long? Unlikely. In fact, I guarantee you I will be able to buy one below MSRP in the next 6-8 months. Gouging customers is a bad business practice and the most successful businesses do not do it. Good businesses take a long term view -- in the case of a car, there is much more money to be made in service, parts, and aftermarket than initial sale of the vehicle. If you nail the customer in the initial sale for the vehicle, you are probably not building the best loyalty for your dealership. If all salespeople are worried about is the "extra 25 for every 100 dollars" than the ownership and management have some work to do in properly motivating the team.

Most car dealerships are mismanaged and treat customers poorly. The few that have decent business practices show this with consistent financial results -- not just when a hot car like the Z comes out.

LS1Steve · #11 09-10-2002, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vin1024
Steve. You think demand for the Z will remain at these levels for long? Unlikely. In fact, I guarantee you I will be able to buy one below MSRP in the next 6-8 months. Gouging customers is a bad business practice and the most successful businesses do not do it. Good businesses take a long term view -- in the case of a car, there is much more money to be made in service, parts, and aftermarket than initial sale of the vehicle. If you nail the customer in the initial sale for the vehicle, you are probably not building the best loyalty for your dealership. If all salespeople are worried about is the "extra 25 for every 100 dollars" than the ownership and management have some work to do in properly motivating the team.

Most car dealerships are mismanaged and treat customers poorly. The few that have decent business practices show this with consistent financial results -- not just when a hot car like the Z comes out.

Of course it won't last forever, nothing does. Eventually the supply will increase and the demand decrease and it'll be like every other car on the lot. We have all of the good customer service of any other place, we are just charging more for the car right now because its new and a hot item. People like being the first to have whats new, and its just a question of what its worth to them. Most of the ones that buy right now understand the whole supply and demand theory and accept the higher intro price. Obviously we have good customer loyalty because this is the way business has been run for decades and are you trying to tell me there is no loyalty in the Z cars? In the Maximas? I had many customers buy their second and even third maxima. As far as long term, cars will always break so service will always make money. Aftermarket items, well, we don't really deal with that, hence the term "after" market, this market is cornered by other businesses like your performance companies, and we know that. Hell, I drive a camaro SS and I have upgraded it well into the thousands of $$$ and I have never once bought a "GM Performance Part", I've only gone through aftermarket companies that specialize in the upgrades. Trust me, the bulk of the money is made in the initial sale. Sales people ARE only worried about the $25 extra dollars, we are not here for the fun of the job, it pays our bills. And trust me, if the dealership didn't motivate us and give incentive to sell, we wouldn't be there. We have awesome financial results, and its not just cause the Z, the maximas are hot, Xterras were hot, and the altima is one of the best selling imports in north america, I couldn't keep a 3.5 in stock to save my life.Don't get mad at Nissan dude, NEWS FLASH, car dealerships are not your best friend, they are a place of business and everyone capitalizes on demand. I went to some drag races the other night and a cup of beer was $5. THATS LIFE! What are you going to tell me next? Your mad because your lawyer charges you too much? Please.

carlson · #12 09-10-2002, 10:28 PM

I agree. Dealers have their rights to charge whatever they want, to cover their losses in some deals. Thats why they are called "dealers", not distributors. If you don't like the price, you go somewhere else or wait until the price drops....... Just like computer stuff. People paid $2000 for a 500 Mhz 3 yrs ago. Now, you can get a 800 Mhz for $500.

Think of it this way, when you walk into Safeway, you just have to pay whatever they charge for an item, there is no room for negotiation. If you don't like the price, you go to Albertson's.

the_bode · #13 09-11-2002, 03:18 AM

FYI, your former employer (Stevens Creek Nissan in SJ) asks for $10,000 over MSRP for a Touring 350z. Wouldn't even let me open the door to look inside unless I indicated that I'd be willing to pay that much. Needless to say, I walked. The car is still on the lot, two weeks later.

Go figure.

jtg530 · #14 09-11-2002, 04:05 AM

Go to Vallejo Nissan. We ordered our new 350Z Touring Model for my wife in January ($1000 deposit) and paid MSRP. There was no dealer mark-up! And they said that they plan to keep it that way. It was the best car buying experience we have ever had. Great people at Vallejo and they are very focused on delivering great customer service and value. $10,000 over MSRP at Stevens?

The only problem my wife has with our new Z is that she never gets to drive it...

vin1024 · #15 09-11-2002, 05:07 AM

Car sales guy says:
"Of course it won't last forever, nothing does. Eventually the supply will increase and the demand decrease and it'll be like every other car on the lot."

Response:
Once that happens, will all the customers you abused with your sales tactics come to you, or to a dealer that treated them fairly? Will the markup you made on those cars be worth all the goodwill it cost you?

Car sales guy says:
"We have all of the good customer service of any other place, we are just charging more for the car right now because its new and a hot item. People like being the first to have whats new, and its just a question of what its worth to them. Most of the ones that buy right now understand the whole supply and demand theory and accept the higher intro price. "

Response:
Nissan discourages pricing over MSRP on the 350Z. Quality businesses never gouge customers for short term gain -- they examine the value of the long term relationship and price accordingly. Stop talking about supply and demand "theory" If you really understood economic and business theory, you wouldn't think the way you do.

Car sales guy says:
"Obviously we have good customer loyalty because this is the way business has been run for decades and are you trying to tell me there is no loyalty in the Z cars? In the Maximas? I had many customers buy their second and even third maxima."

Response:
Nissan, as a company, has built some excellent products. The VQ engine is the best V-6 on the market. Many customers are repeat Nissan buyers in SPITE of their dealerships. If Nissan could turn their dealer network around, they would really have something (and they have the capability -- the Infiniti sales/service experience is excellent).

Car sales guy says:
"As far as long term, cars will always break so service will always make money. Aftermarket items, well, we don't really deal with that, hence the term "after" market, this market is cornered by other businesses like your performance companies, and we know that. Hell, I drive a camaro SS and I have upgraded it well into the thousands of $$$ and I have never once bought a "GM Performance Part", I've only gone through aftermarket companies that specialize in the upgrades...blah blah..."

Response:
The question is -- where will people get their vehicles serviced? There are a lot of options. Any decent sized city will have several options for Nissan service. Many Nissan dealers sell performance parts -- stillen, cattman, etc. (i.e. Courtesy Nissan, Texas). While the salespeople may not see these dollars, this business unit has a significant effect on the dealer's financials.

I guess in the end, it is a question of perspective. You are looking at this purely as a salesperson, and from that perspective your short-sighted view makes sense. Most car salespeople don't last very long at a single dealership anyway. However, if you took a macro view of the situation, a good business person would not gouge on the Z. They would focus on developing long term customer relationships which will in the end be much more profitable. It is the challenge of the dealer ownership to get salespeople to take care of customers in this way by offering incentive compensation based on other metrics than dollar value of the sale -- and many dealers do that.

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