vibration past 60mph, 1997 taurus gl

[ashal444]

I have a 1997 taurus gl, when I am on the highway past 60 mph I can feel a vibration in the stearing wheel and seats, it gets worse as I increase speed, past 75mph you can see the stearing wheel shaking, it seems to get worse when I turn the stearing wheel. It has new sparkplugs, new brakes, new front rotors, the tires were just balanced, no check lights. Could one, or more of the tires be out of round, steal belts broke, not balanced right or something like that? Or could it be a driveaxle? I just can't seem to solve this.

[InstallTech]

Last time I had a problem like that in a car, it turned out to be misbalanced tires. I'd check the tire pressure first, then take it in to have the tire's balances checked again. Took care of the problem for my old car.

[shorod]

Was the vibration present before the tires were balanced? If not, then suspect the balancing. If so, then check the tires for scallopping or odd wear. Have the front suspension components inspected. Are there any loose parts such as ball joints and/or tie rod ends? Are the struts shot?

If everything checks out, then try swapping the wheels front to rear. Does the vibration change (vibration felt more in the seats than in the steering wheel)?

-Rod

[ashal444]

I have had the front two tires replaced, the balance is good, the aligment is good, wheels are good, swaybar links are fine, strut mounts are solid.

The place I see a problem is when I put the front up on jackstands, support control arms, you can see the front tires wobble back and forth quite a lot, the left is worse. The tire shop told me this is normal for a car that is jacked up, but I don't think so.

You can also (sometimes) hear a clank coming from the front when you slow at a stop, and its not the brakes.

Bad motor mounts? Bad wheel berings? bent axle?

I can't figure this out

[TomV]

shorod's suggestion concerning tire rotation is one I have been successful with in the past. I have had tires balanced but still had riding issues. Swapping the tires pointed out that the problem was with the tires. Since they had over 30,000 miles I replaced them with new ones and the problems went away. This has happened twice on my 97 G. I still have the original tierods and ball joints after 100,000 miles (knock on wood). Goes to show that use had deteriorated the tires to a state that balancing does not fix, even though they appeared to be wearing evenly.

You mention tire movement when jacked up. Is this movement taking place at the ball joint/control arm intersection or at the hub/axle?

[ashal444]

the movement is taking place at the tire,hub. When jacked up the tire wobbles back and forth like it was out of round, but I have had three different tires on there and they all do the same thing, all were ballanced before install. Could bad tie rod end links cause this?

[shorod]

Originally Posted by ashal444

the movement is taking place at the tire,hub. When jacked up the tire wobbles back and forth like it was out of round, but I have had three different tires on there and they all do the same thing, all were ballanced before install. Could bad tie rod end links cause this?

Sorry, but could you describe the wobble a bit more? Does the tread/profile of the tire "wobble", ie: if you are looking across the top of the tread and rotate the wheel/tire in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction, there appears to be a high spot? Of if you grab onto the tire/wheel and try to pull it towards you, the assembly moves? If the latter, does it only move if you are pulling front and rear, or top and bottom? Front and rear only wobble would indicate either inner or outer tie rod ends. Top and bottom wobble only would indicate ball joint. Wobble in all directions would indicate either tie rod AND ball joint, or wheel bearing.

-Rod

[ashal444]

Originally Posted by shorod

Sorry, but could you describe the wobble a bit more? Does the tread/profile of the tire "wobble", ie: if you are looking across the top of the tread and rotate the wheel/tire in a clockwise or counterclockwise direction, there appears to be a high spot? Of if you grab onto the tire/wheel and try to pull it towards you, the assembly moves? If the latter, does it only move if you are pulling front and rear, or top and bottom? Front and rear only wobble would indicate either inner or outer tie rod ends. Top and bottom wobble only would indicate ball joint. Wobble in all directions would indicate either tie rod AND ball joint, or wheel bearing.

-Rod

This is everything that happaned today, I jacked the front up with jack stands, supported the control arms with smaller jacks. The tires, wheels were off the ground in park, and i tried to move the tires back and forth at 9 and 3 o'clock (not spinning, but pulling right to left) there was some movement on both sides, right wheel worse than left, the tie rod seemed to move into the rack a little on both sides. I tried 12 and 6 o'clock, no movement on either side. When in drive jacked up speedometer reads about 17mph, right side tire "wobbles" up and down, back and forth, right side worse than left, the wheels themselves looked to be spinning round. No movement in assembly.

[shorod]

I still suggest you move the front wheels to the rear and the rear to the front and see if the shake in the steering wheel gets any better. Without feeling the side-to-side movement, it's hard to say if there is enough play there to be concerned with. You may just be getting the play in the steering gear, or you may have loose tie rod ends (inner or outer). However, from your description of the wobble, it sounds like the tire may be an issue. Moving it to the rear should cause an inprovement in the steering wheel shimmy at speed.

A reputable tire shop should be able to determine if the tire is out of round, either by checking the runout on the car or using a dynamic balancer. Some shops may even have a load balancer which should definitely show a bad tire. If they want to check the runout on the car, it would certainly be better to have the suspect tire on the rear since there's no drivetrain connected to it there.

-Rod

[ashal444]

Originally Posted by shorod

I still suggest you move the front wheels to the rear and the rear to the front and see if the shake in the steering wheel gets any better. Without feeling the side-to-side movement, it's hard to say if there is enough play there to be concerned with. You may just be getting the play in the steering gear, or you may have loose tie rod ends (inner or outer). However, from your description of the wobble, it sounds like the tire may be an issue. Moving it to the rear should cause an inprovement in the steering wheel shimmy at speed.

A reputable tire shop should be able to determine if the tire is out of round, either by checking the runout on the car or using a dynamic balancer. Some shops may even have a load balancer which should definitely show a bad tire. If they want to check the runout on the car, it would certainly be better to have the suspect tire on the rear since there's no drivetrain connected to it there.

-Rod

The rear tires were the ones that were on the front, when I got the new tires, I put them on the front and the olds on the back hoping it would take care of the problem.

With the movment at 9 and 3'oclock could the tierod ends be bad?

[Willyum]

In ther 4th post you contradict yourself by saying the wheels and tires are good but when you spin them they wobble. It is not normal for tires to wobble whether they are jacked up or not. There is a certain amount of normal slack or play that you can feel when you have the car off the ground. Your tire shop should replace the tires, if not get a refund and go to Discount Tire, they will work with you and put tires on it until kindom come or you're satisfied, whichever comes first.
You have several good suggestions here, first you need to quit believing the sales people where you bought the tires.

[ashal444]

Originally Posted by Willyum

In ther 4th post you contradict yourself by saying the wheels and tires are good but when you spin them they wobble. It is not normal for tires to wobble whether they are jacked up or not. There is a certain amount of normal slack or play that you can feel when you have the car off the ground. Your tire shop should replace the tires, if not get a refund and go to Discount Tire, they will work with you and put tires on it until kindom come or you're satisfied, whichever comes first.
You have several good suggestions here, first you need to quit believing the sales people where you bought the tires.

I did not contradict myself, I said the wheels looked good, but the tires wobbled, perhaps you should read it again. Also I don't believe the tire shop.

[shorod]

As willyum mentioned, a certain amount of play from the 3 and 9 o'clock positions is somewhat normal. However, without being able to personally wiggle the wheel/tire assembly, I cannot accurately comment on if what you are experiencing is normal.

Based on your descriptions though, it sounds like you have a bad tire or tires. If left unattended to for very long, there is a good chance that other components of your car will wear prematurely as well.

Maybe you can find an independent shop that sells tires to give you a second opinion. They may charge you a small amount since you didn't buy the tires from them, but if they save you from having to replace your ball joints/struts/teeth/insert your own item here, it will be worth it.

-Rod