Monaco GP 06'

[DinanM3_S2]

Not a great weekend of racing.

I like Schumacher, but even I admit that his qualifying antics were uncalled for. Hopefully his penalty will shut all the Ferrari/FIA conspiracy theorists up. My biggest complaint is the lack of consistancy on the part of the FIA for penalizing drivers in qualifying. Villeneuve, Fisichella, and Schumacher have all been reprimanded for slowing someone else down on purpose, but they all have had very different penalties. Villeneuve was simply moved back, Fisichella lost his best 3 laps, and Schumacher was kicked back to 22nd. They need some set rule on this issue or they need to reformat the qualifying to allow the drivers more room.

The race actually wasn't looking too bad until Rosberg, Webber, and Raikkonen all dropped out. I was so impressed by Webber's ability to stick with Kimi and stay well ahead of Montoya. Kimi looked like he would have passed Alonso had he kept up his race. Rosberg also looked great until he dropped out. What was going to be a great day for Williams completely fell apart. Webber and Rosberg are both looked pretty good, now they just need competitive cars.

I wasn't at all impressed by Montoya or Button. JPM wasn't at the same level as Alonso, Kimi, Webber, or Schumacher. The only reason he placed 2nd was dropouts and Schumacher's qualifying. Kimi was much faster here. What a way for Button to go into his home race. He qualified badly and raced badly, losing to Liuzzi's Torro Rosso. Honestly I don't see how Alonso couldn't have won the race.

I am most impressed by Schumacher, Coulthard, Heidfeld, and Massa. Qualifying was a complete disaster for Ferrari in the most extreme way possible. There was no feasibly worse way for them to start, yet they recovered and made up many more places then I thought they would. Massa went from 21st to 9th and Schumacher went from 22nd to 5th. Had there been one or two more laps or had Button not held Schumacher up earlier on, he could have passed Barrichello and Coulthard. Heidfeld wasn't quite as impressive as the Ferraris, but still managed to go from 15th to 7th. Coulthard has proven that adults can wear superman capes and that Ferrari isn't giving them a junk engine.

Ideally, the race would have been between Alonso, Kimi, Webber, Montoya, and Schumacher up front and between Coulthard, Barrichello, Rosberg, Fisichella, and Massa behind them. As it was the race was decided the second Webber and Raikkonen dropped out.

Man of the race was Michael Schumacher for going from 22nd to 5th and I shed a tear for the whole Williams team. Alonso needs a DNF or two to make the season interesting again.

[freakray]

After the issues Mclaren have been having, nobody can hold it against Kimi if he does sign a contract with another team.

[Jimster]

One of the best races I've ever seen in the last 3 or 4 years, would have been better if Webber'd kept it up and won though, sad to see Klein and Trulli also robbed of much needed shots at the podium.

WTF happened to Button? He couldn't even hold off Albers and Sato most of the race, insane...


As for Schmi, I think the spin was genuine, the rest of it was him trying to make the best of a bad situation, Senna was guilty of the same types of tactics, it's not exactly unheard of. Still he got punished, all is fair, really good race to get to 5th, frankly though, we need Sato or Massa to banzai Alonso to make sure this doesn't become like 2002 or 2004.

[CarInfoGuy]

Why doesn't F1 qualify the way other series' do, one car at a time for a couple of laps?

They wouldn't have this sort of problem if they did. Is it tradition, or is there a practical reason?

[freakray]

Originally Posted by CarInfoGuy

Why doesn't F1 qualify the way other series' do, one car at a time for a couple of laps?

They wouldn't have this sort of problem if they did. Is it tradition, or is there a practical reason?

You may want to ask this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Mosley

The qualifying format has changed every couple of years because some old fuck can't stop playing with the rules.

[DinanM3_S2]

F1, like any other sport, needs to make money. Unfortunately for F1, they only have 18 races all year. In order to increase income, they broadcast qualifying the day before every race. Having one car go at a time might be more fair, but it would be boring to watch; nobody wants to watch one car at a time go around a circuit for 2.5 hours or so. This format also allows for more strategy to go into race day (fuel loads and such).

[freakray]

Originally Posted by DinanM3_S2

F1, like any other sport, needs to make money. Unfortunately for F1, they only have 18 races all year. In order to increase income, they broadcast qualifying the day before every race. Having one car go at a time might be more fair, but it would be boring to watch; nobody wants to watch one car at a time go around a circuit for 2.5 hours or so. This format also allows for more strategy to go into race day (fuel loads and such).

What was last year's qualifying format?

Or for that matter, the year before's format?

[RallyRaider]

Bummer of a race. Regardless of all the qualifying controversy it was setting itself up nicely before Alonso's challengers self destructed yet agian.

About that controversy, the stewards deliberated for eight hours before relegating Schumacher to the back of the grid. If somebody like Villeneuve or Klein had pulled the same stunt the decision would have taken 8 minutes!

[ales]

Yup, and the decision would've been quite different.

I will agree that the issue was worth investigating, but I am disgusted at the justification that the Spanish steward came out to the press with, and I was just as disgusted with everyone and their dad jumping on the bandwagon and going for the throat at the first sniff of blood. Predictable, but still disgusting.

Mark should have won the race, you could just feel he had more in reserve than Alonso or even Kimi. Kimi certainly woul've overtaking Alonso during the second pitstop in regular circumstances considering how much longer his first one was and the pace.

[RallyRaider]

Originally Posted by ales

Yup, and the decision would've been quite different.

How so? Other drivers have had times removed due to blocking and other misdemeanours, down the grid. Given the order of magnitude above those incidents, the penalty was required as a deterent against other competitors repeating the tactic. Michaels less than squeaky clean history probably counted against him, but that is all his own doing.

Originally Posted by ales

I will agree that the issue was worth investigating, but I am disgusted at the justification that the Spanish steward came out to the press with, and I was just as disgusted with everyone and their dad jumping on the bandwagon and going for the throat at the first sniff of blood. Predictable, but still disgusting.

Again, how so? Intentional or not (I can't say for sure either way) plenty of teams had a right to feel disadvantaged. In many ways it is a symptom of the latest stupid qualifying system. Funny how nothing like this ever happend during the old two one hour qualifying sessions format. Well maybe there was Senna at France that year but that was more a case of cleverly exploiting the circuit layout than it was screwing the competition over.

Bit nasty bringing the nationality of the steward into question. I recall another argument at about another race...

Originally Posted by ales

Mark should have won the race, you could just feel he had more in reserve than Alonso or even Kimi. Kimi certainly woul've overtaking Alonso during the second pitstop in regular circumstances considering how much longer his first one was and the pace.

I can't be certain if Kimi or Mark had the performance to jump Alonso, but it sure would have been interesting to find out on track.

[freakray]

I think it's disgusting how everyone in F1 has this vendetta against Michael, it's almost like they don't want him to win any more.....

[ales]

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

How so? Other drivers have had times removed due to blocking and other misdemeanours, down the grid. Given the order of magnitude above those incidents, the penalty was required as a deterent against other competitors repeating the tactic. Michaels less than squeaky clean history probably counted against him, but that is all his own doing.

That's the problem right there - history should have no effect on the decision, otherwise it's just prejudged. And it was. Effectively since by the stewards' own admission, they did not know if the whole incident or even any part of it was deliberate, so they penalised MS for the same thing they did Fisico. While I personally don't view the incidents as similar in any way, but since they did, why was the punishment more lenient for Fisichella?

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

Bit nasty bringing the nationality of the steward into question. I recall another argument at about another race...

He was the only steward to voice his opinion, and he didn't hold back, so it's fair game.

Besides, what about no safety car at the previous GP when Montoya perched his car on the kerb? Granted, it would've hindered MS, but it would've brought Alonso closer to other drivers, so no safety car.

[RallyRaider]

Originally Posted by ales

That's the problem right there - history should have no effect on the decision, otherwise it's just prejudged. And it was. Effectively since by the stewards' own admission, they did not know if the whole incident or even any part of it was deliberate, so they penalised MS for the same thing they did Fisico. While I personally don't view the incidents as similar in any way, but since they did, why was the punishment more lenient for Fisichella?

Well in our justice system establishing guilt and sentencing are two different things. History counts in the latter as it may have in this case. As far as I'm concerned I hope Schumacher's actions at Rascasse were deliberate because otherwise he has no place in an F1 car.

Originally Posted by ales

He was the only steward to voice his opinion, and he didn't hold back, so it's fair game.

Why the need to need to qualify the description with the steward's nationality. He was the only one who spoke to the media. Or does his nationality make a difference?

Originally Posted by ales

Besides, what about no safety car at the previous GP when Montoya perched his car on the kerb? Granted, it would've hindered MS, but it would've brought Alonso closer to other drivers, so no safety car.

You arguing for safety cars now? As far as I'm concerned the more avoided the better. That particular incident was well handled with the use of waved yellows. The position of the McLaren wasn't dangerous as aproaching drivers had good visibility. The extraction was very efficiently handled by the marshals, and allowed the race to flow naturally. I didn't see any problem.

[ales]

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

As far as I'm concerned I hope Schumacher's actions at Rascasse were deliberate because otherwise he has no place in an F1 car.

Right... And you're qualified to say this because you have so much experience driving F1 cars then? A bit like Villeneuve - he said something to the same effect, then went on to overtake behind the safety car.

As far as I'm concerned, punishment should be handed when there's clear proof of a transgression, and I'm yet to see any whatsoever. Mistakes happen, and this can be a dangerous precedent, and you know exactly why.

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

Why the need to need to qualify the description with the steward's nationality.

Because I firmly believe that his nationality made the difference. Maybe, maybe not in the decision, although I'm not that convinced, but in the fact that he spoke to the media and how he spoke to the media.

Originally Posted by RallyRaider

The extraction was very efficiently handled by the marshals, and allowed the race to flow naturally. I didn't see any problem.

Alright ... how about Alonso overtaking a backmarker under yellow flag during the same incident? How about Alonso setting his fastest lap when there were yellow flags and Schumacher's car at Rascasse? None of these have even been discussed. It's not like Alonso doesn't have a history of driving dangerously under yellow flags. Not only does it seem Ferrari and Schumacher have to play to stricter rules, but they're also seem to be taken away the right to make mistakes.

[RallyRaider]

Yeah I'm an expert in having no place in an F1 car because I have no place in an F1 car. So far I've seen no claims the car was at fault therefore Michael must have lost it himself. Kind of a novice error, not to mention unfortunate timing, or was he feeling the pressure again.

One of the stewards was Spanish and bullied all the other stewards into the decision just to benefit a fellow countryman. Yeah real plausible, what was that word - disgusting.

Yellow flag incidents are a dime a dozen, sometime drivers get away with them, eventually they get pinged. I venture to say even the soul of fair play himself, Michael Schumacher (gag) has got away with similar incidents in the past. Do you honestly consider any of the above flag misdeeds (real or imagined) compare to the Rascasse incident?