84 305 Rebuild - First rebuild

[TheCrazzyOne]

Ok ive been around these forums for awhile asking manny questions about my car. 84 caprice wagon.
I was wanting to get a 350 to put into it but got kinda screwed over and dont have the money to get one and may be awhile before I do.

So.. Im rebuilding the current 305 in it.
Just pulled the motor over the weekend, everything is removed down to the block (havent removed oil pan yet).. and I was suprised to see how clean the cylinder walls and pistons were for being a 22 yeard old car that has been over heated several times.

Already have pistons and heads to put on/in it, purchased them a few years ago for a 77 that I didint get to keep when I moved so they have just been floating around. Ill post casting numbers of the heads next time I go work on the car.

The pistons are completely flat top except for the cut in for valves. and the heads were remans from a 77.

Like I said this is my first rebuild, Ive ripped engines apart but never put one back together.. So i have a few questions..

First: Im keeping the quadra jet and the 700r4 trani, How much electronic shit am I gona have to leave on there for the computer to run it right, I would like to strip off as much electrical shit as I can, Dont have Echeck anymore, so dont need to worry about that.

Second: I would like to get a little bit of a power increase. Stock its like 180hp, would like to get 200 or more, but dont have alot of money, I can swing about 100 a month into this car. I plan on getting some headers and puting straight duals on her, I know this wont do much for a 305 but I just want that sound

Third: Im replacing intake, Is there Intakes that will work with my quadrajet that does not have the egr on it? I know I can just put a plat over that but there is a bolt right next to that thing that is a bitch to take in and out with the mount for the egr being there.

Forth: Is a 700r4 designed to be able to skip a gear? 2 years ago I was just crusing around, got stuck in realy bad space in traffic on a highway so i had to gun it, and it went from 2nd to 4th? It had redlined in second gear at 55mph then the rpms droped to like 800 and it just took off. Fastest that car has ever accelerated. no idea how fast I end up going becouse 85mph speedo..

oh and speaking of speedometer, whats the best way to replace an instrument cluster, Im tired of only having idiot lights, and a speedo that never tells me how fast im realy going. im actualy looking into building my own but no clue how to go about striping out all the old wires without removing the wrong things.

Thanks in advance..

[TheCrazzyOne]

ooh and cleaning a block, whats teh best way?. One site of the motor has oil gunked all over it, and the other side rust.
would like to get it all cleaned off so i can get it painted before I start putting it all back together

[silicon212]

The pistons aren't going to work in your current motor without modifications to the motor itself. You have a degree of cylinder taper, and to clean this you must bore the block. If the pistons you have are oversize, no problem - just bore the block to the oversize of the pistons. If they're not oversize, then they will do you no good - you must replace them.

#1 - if you want the ECM functional, you must not remove any sensor. Period. And that includes the EGR valve.

#2 - Stock HP on your 305 is like 145, not 180. These are not power monsters, they are emission- and economy- friendly engines. You can make them make power, but it costs $$$, a LOT more than a 350 from Pick-n-Pull ($99). Figure on spending close to $2G to make it make power.

#3 - Leave the EGR valve on it. It doesn't kill power and your engine is designed to run with it. Edelbrock makes a #3701 Performer EGR intake that works great with that engine, adding about 5HP and 5-10 ft. lb. torque.

#4 - Don't worry too much, especially if it was a couple years ago and the transmission's been fine since. Sometimes, the way you operate the throttle can cause an automatic transmission to skip a gear.

#5 - Add a set of gauges to the car, an aftermarket set (Like Auto Meter etc). Don't tear into the dash itself, it's far more trouble than it's worth. Use a tee fitting on your oil pressure tap on the block so you can run both idiot lights and the gauge.

Second post answer is to take it to a machine shop and have it vatted. If you can't afford to do this, you can do it yourself with a tank large enough to put the entire block in, two bottles of Red Devil Lye*, a rifle bore brush kit, a garden hose, towels to quickly wipe the block down after rinsing, and a can of WD40 to keep it from rusting afterwards. First, put the block in the tank, fill the tank with water until it covers the block, then pull the block back out. Now, remove ALL plugs from the block - this includes all freeze plugs and the oil galley plugs both front and back. While the block is out of the water, SLOWLY add both bottles of lye - DANGER - this stuff is wicked bad corrosive and can react with the water - and can remove skin from your bones. Stir it with a wooden stick until it is completely dissolved in the water - if it is not completely dissolved, the solids will congeal and form a rock-hard deposit in the water that is extremely corrosive. Wear oven cleaning gloved while you do this! Now, SLOWLY lower the block into the water, get a friend to help if you must, to prevent the solution from splashing out. Let the block sit in there for 15-20 minutes. Once the time has passed, get your rifle bore brushes and use them to clean all of the oil galleys - the ones going through the lifter bores, the one in the center (3 in total), the oil pressure line from the pump to the top of the block, all of it. Clean the oiling holes from the top of the block to the mains.

Now pull the block from the tank and rinse it very good with the hose, including the oil passages. Skip the step with the paper towel and use your can of WD40 to entirely cover the block - while it is still wet from the water - to prevent rust from forming. The lye is an oxidant and will cause the block to start rusting within seconds of drying out if you do not WD40 it. Pretend you're painting the entire block when you are WD40-ing it.

* Lye is a dangerous chemical. If you haven't ever worked with it, do not perform this and instead take it to a machine shop. Even if you do this yourself, you will still need to purchase a set of cam bearings and have them installed at a machine shop. The lye will kill the cam bearings in the block now, so don't even think of trying to reuse them.

[TheCrazzyOne]

ECM.
Then Is there a older ecm I can get that will work for the Quadra jet and 700r4?
Cuz I realy dont want any of that shit on there. cuz thats just more shit that can fuck up and need fixed later, I want a nice clean, open V8, dont want all them sensors, tubs and wires runing all over it making it a pain in the ass just to replace a spark plug.

HP Gain.
I know 305s arent ment for power, But I know they can produce decent power when built up right. I know one of the main things is heads, 305 heads just dont breath well enough. but with some machineing done to them can get a bit more power. and im looking at what mods I can do now that will help me when I finaly do get some decent heads on there.
What about oversize cams?, Ive heard about that helping but dont know what kinda of other adjustments/replacements I would need to have that done.
Oversize cams basicly allows valves to stay open longer right?, Is they any major changes I would need to make to make sure a pistons not gona hit a valve?

AIR?
Is that thing there just to pass echeck, first thing i did when pulling my motor was cut all that shit off so I had room to get at the bolts. what does it do, and will i need it?

Intake.
I noticed this when i pulld off the carb, what is that massive hole under the carb for? its like on the right side of the intake, has a plug in it now. Any way I can use this to force more air/fuel into it and get a little bit more power?

[HLandin]

The AIR (Air Injection Reaction) system is used primarily for startup. It reduces emissions by causing more complete combustion of unburnt hydrocrabons in the exhaust manifold. After startup, it supplies air to the cat to help it work. So, yes it is just an emission device; however, like silicon212 said earlier, if you start removing stuff, you engine might not work the same.

[TheCrazzyOne]

Is there anything I can do to atleast remove some of this stuff..
The egr system has caused nothing but problems with that motor.
and i hate trying to work on around all that shit just to tweak something minor.

and on the pasenger side of the motor in the back on the valve cover. that tube thingy that connects to the air filter. where else can I run that, I want to put an open aircleaner on there.
And what causes that thing to spray massive amounts of oil?

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by TheCrazzyOne

Is there anything I can do to atleast remove some of this stuff..
The egr system has caused nothing but problems with that motor.
and i hate trying to work on around all that shit just to tweak something minor.

and on the pasenger side of the motor in the back on the valve cover. that tube thingy that connects to the air filter. where else can I run that, I want to put an open aircleaner on there.
And what causes that thing to spray massive amounts of oil?

The EGR system will cause no problems on a properly tuned engine. The tube that comes out of the valve cover is the crankcase breather tube. If it's spraying massive amounts of oil as you put it, this is an indication your engine is worn out. The stuff blowing the oil up and out is piston ring blowby.

[Nym]

Hmmmm sounds like your engine needs a rebuild.

To bypass the computer is easy. Make sure your quadrajet isn't computer controlled. ie, no electrical connectors hooked up to it. If it is, get another one at a swap meet or scrapyard.

Invest in a HEI disributor. the old one, the big one. Get a Crane distributor advance kit. Lock out as much vacuum as possible. Screw around with the weights until you get total advance by 3000 rpm.

Painless Wiring sells a kit to modify your th700r4 so it will go into overdrive without a computer.

Now you can block off your EGR and enjoy your new found torque.

Good luck. I was pleased with the results when I did this to my Camaro (May she rest in peace)

Cheers

PS Don't go nuts picking out a huge cam. 305's need as much torque as they can get. Crane makes a nice cam (113931 Cam or 113932 kit) 210/216 @ .050. nice for a 305. More grunt and no noticeable loss in low speed torque. Moderation is the key. You'll be happy. trust me.

[TommySS]

You have some great responses to your original question. Please take the time and spend the money to do the job right, or you will ultimately be very unhappy and frustrated with problems that you only have yourself to blame for.

The engine is already out of the car, so take it to a machine shop for cleaning/inspection to ensure the block isn't damaged. You're wasting $$$ rebuilding an engine that could be bad.

I'm essentially in the same boat as you, but will go w/the (new) 350 crate engine. For the amount of money it costs, the new engine is a bargain over the time/money/effort required to rebuild (especially if the 305 is hurt).

[TheCrazzyOne]

Thanks for all your responses it helps.
and yes I would love to get a 350 to put in there. was actualy looking into getting one that I saw on ebay for $900, only needed intake and heads.

But I only make about $850 and have 600 in just basic bills.
So im wanting to get that 305 rebuilt for now untill I get a better job and can get some money together for it..
If i could I would wait and just save up money for the 350. but I dont have a place I can keep a none runing car. so im doing this as fast as I can.

again thanks alot.
and thanks for the post about how to remove ecm, thats exactly what I wanted to know.. and yes mine is computer controled, but I know alot of people who will just give me quadra jets for free. most people I know hate those things..
But i hear from a few people who actualy spend time with them that they are actualy decent if you have the time to configure them right.

and i do like it myself becouse Its decent on gas for a 4 barrel. and i was able to beat a cavalier(stock) in a race with my 2 ton wagon that torque helps get it off the line and that overdrive helps in pure speed.. not to mention im stupid enough to take turns doing 90..

again thanks.

[Blue Bowtie]

If you remove the ECM, you will no longer have that "high speed" overdrive and lockup. You'll get OD, but the trans will always run hotter due to the lack of lockup. Even worse, without a functioning ECM, you will have nothing but base timing - No spark advance. Further, that "troublesome" EGR valve can actually be helping you by keeping chamber themperatures down and allowing more advance than would be possible without it. Be prepared to perform a lot of wirk and tuning to get back to where you started if you intend to "old school" it and remove the ECM. It would be easier to repair the system and restore its operation and spend some time learning about it instead of constantly tuning and tweaking to get performance and fuel mileage almost as good as what the ECM was doing.

I would also avoid using the 1977 heads if possible. There is a chance that your original castings are 416s, which are far superior to anything from the '70s, and outflow the highly touted "camel hump" or "double hump" 461 and 462 heads. There is a better chance that the '84 came with 201 heads, which are still better than what you probably got from any '77 engine.

[Nym]

[quote=Blue Bowtie]If you remove the ECM, you will no longer have that "high speed" overdrive and lockup. You'll get OD, but the trans will always run hotter due to the lack of lockup.

The kit that Painless wiring sells includes a lock up switch (from a th400 if I'm not mistaken) therefore allowing the th700r4 to lock up and go into overdrive without an ECM.

As for the other things mentioned, I have to disagree. I modded my old Camaro and I had more torque and performance when I was done with it. 100 percent ECM free.....and EGR free too I did rewire the th700r4 but never reinstalled it. I had a th350 with a shift kit in her and I really liked it. So I left that one in her until I got rid of her.

My worth.

Cheers

[Blue Bowtie]

You would disagree? Do you really believe that 993 heads are stronger, flow better, and support more power than 416 or 201 heads? I though that I was living in the past...

My point about the ECM was that of course you can get rid of it (it's been done thousands of times), but you'll have to spend several hundred dollars to "eliminate" something that is already part of your car and replace it with something that performs the same function.

And I guaranty that you'll NEVER be able to curve a vacuum/mechanical distributor with a spark map like an ECM can provide. I've run a distributor or two on a Sun tester, and there is no way to get the high advance at low RPM light load, have it back off at 1,600, come back around 2,500, back off timing at 3,200, and come back full at 4,300 RPM (about what a typical SBC likes to have). Anything you do will be a compromise. Learn to program the ECM/PROM. You'll be much farther ahead. You can eliminate almost any I/O device and error code you like through the programming without having to Band-Aid the rest of the system.

Crazy,

Good call. Stick with the Q-Jet. Short of a TQ, there isn't another carb that can meter fuel for dailiy driving nearly as well, and still flow 850 CFM when you want it. I still believe you would be far better off with the E4ME version of the Rochester, but a M4M can be tuned almost as well for a daily driver.

[Nym]

My apologies Blue Bowtie. I wasn't referring to the heads that you had mentioned, only what you posted about losing the ECM. My laziness not to be more specific....

It was a very simple mod for me, and even though I am no fan of the 305, I was extrememly pleased with the performance my little Camaro gave me after the mods I did with it. I had no trouble with the distributor and the spreadbore Holley gave me no grief whatsoever and I had oodles more torque than I ever had before.

Sorry. I'll be more specific from now on.

[silicon212]

Originally Posted by TheCrazzyOne

Intake.
I noticed this when i pulld off the carb, what is that massive hole under the carb for? its like on the right side of the intake, has a plug in it now. Any way I can use this to force more air/fuel into it and get a little bit more power?

Sorry, I just noticed this. The hole you see is plugged on the outside to prevent a massive vacuum leak. The purpose of the hole is to the hole in the divider in the plenum - this hole equalizes pressure (or vacuum) between both halves of the plenum on the factory dual-plane intake. Some aftermarket dual-plane intakes have material removed from this area for the same reason.