98 Voyager 3.3L

[ggratecc]

My 98 Voyager is experiencing a new problem...
First thing in the morning(cold), the engine won't start or is
hard to start. Wife thinks the battery is dead, but
battery is only 1.5 years old (from Autozone).
Battery connections appear good.

Never had trouble starting after engine is warm.

What do you think?

[vipergg]

Get a battery terminal brush and clean both battery terminals ,rough them upgood so the terminals look shiney, also clean the inside the cables with the battery brush until they are shiney too...

[HeadlessHorseman]

Given the age of your vehicle, it might also be your starter motor/solenoid is crapping out.

[ggratecc]

Thanks for the quick feedback:
Before I received your replies here is what happened last night:
I have a Chilton's 96-99 repair manual w/ wiring diagrams! have used
it for replacing power window motor.

Last night came home and my son had Autozone verify battery is good,
reinstalled battery.
Now, tried key 4 times and just heard a click, no starter growl.
Then, I removed fuse panel cover under hood. Tapped on each
relay. Turned key and on second try it STARTED!

This morning it started on second try, w/o me tapping anything.

It seems to me it's the "starter" relay may need replacing.
I'm an electrician, so naturally I gravitated to the relay possibility.
At least I've given you more symptoms for diagnosis.
TIA,
Greg

[RIP]

Now that we know you have a cranking problem and not a starting problem, forget the crank sensor. Since you are hearing a click I would say power is getting from your ignition switch through the neutral start switch, then to the starter relay and finally to the starter solinoid contacts. Therein lies the problem. Make sure the connections on the starter are tight and not corroded. If they are good then you can either change just the contacts or go for the whole shabang and change the starter (contacts are part of the starter).

As for the relay, there is always the possibility it's passing voltage but, not enough current. Normally, when they go bad they don't do anything but, funny things happen. If there is an identical relay on the panel swap them and see if that helps. If not, buy a new one. Keep in touch.


Round and round we go. Hope this is in the right place ggratcc

[ggratecc]

Review: I checked battery and connections, but I never cleaned them
with a brush. I will do that in the future however.

Before I got dirty dealing with the starter, I decided to buy the
$17 starter relay from the dealer and stick it in. It is relay "L".
The engine started with the first turn of the key and has ever
since (3 days now).
I'm calling it fixed.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

[ggratecc]

Oops, I spoke too soon. Wife said it took 3 tries of the ignition switch to
start her up today (cold and rainy).
Starting to sound/feel like the starter is bad... guess I'll have to
get dirty now.

[slantsixness]

A failing Crank position sensor, along with other sensors will cause the Van not to crank (no, I don't mean not start, I mean, not crank and turn over).
A telltale sign for this is that the Check Engine light will NOT ever come on, and when and if it does, the Van will crank. Coincidently, with a shorted sensor, you won't be able to retrieve codes, either.

Check this before you waste money on a new starter!

Tom

[ggratecc]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

A failing Crank position sensor, along with other sensors will cause the Van not to crank (no, I don't mean not start, I mean, not crank and turn over).
A telltale sign for this is that the Check Engine light will NOT ever come on, and when and if it does, the Van will crank. Coincidently, with a shorted sensor, you won't be able to retrieve codes, either.

Check this before you waste money on a new starter!

Tom

Tom, thanks...ever since I got your reply the engine cranks just fine.
It seems the symptom has gone away again.
I try starting at least 10 times a day and no problem.
Naturally the check engine light always comes on.
Guess I'll just have to keep driving it until the problem reappears...
Greg

[RIP]

If it comes back, verify the CLICK YOU HEAR is coming from the starter. If so, CHANGE THE STARTER or the contacts. The CLICK is telling you power is getting from the your ignition switch through the neutral/start switch, starter relay and finally the starter and all the sensors effecting the PCM start circuit portion are working.

Since you are getting a check engine light I assume other than when you initially turn the key, you can go to Autozone or the like and have them connect a scanner and read the fail code for free. They can tell you specifics on the failure.

[ggratecc]

RIP,
I do recall that every time I had no-crank, I did hear a loud click
from near or at the starter.
The starter relay replacement is the only think I've changed so far.
thanks, I'll just wait till it reappears, but you have given me something
to help me diagnose.

[ggratecc]

Final resolution...looks like headlesshorseman and RIP got it right.
Friday night, my wife drove away and within a minute there was
black smoke coming out from under the engine.
When I arrived it smelled really bad and thought alot of
wire insulation had burned. Also, no power to roll up the windows
or anything, completely dead electrically.

Luckily, only the starter motor was burned up, Discount tire
replaced starter motor and charged up the battery for about $230.

I only have 85k miles, but seems like these 98 Voyagers have
starter motor failures.

[RIP]

Wow, sounds like you had a starter from hell. Thanks for coming back with the fix. Glad to hear all is well now. Cheers!