windstar-battery

[comanche64]

Hello: I need help;I removed battery cables from battery post.I found out that I should only removed negative.The problem was serpantine belt replacement;I didn"t want to touch alternator and cause short.I replaced Belt reconnected postive and negative cables.The road test everything works ;except Air Compresser will not engage.The Ford people and chilton book said I need to drive 10 miles so the {Brain} could reset itself.Well I drove 15 miles no cooling-Compressor will not engage.Has anyone had this occur;It is a first for me. I left out this is a 96 windstar 3.8 Eng

[CoachKarl]

Welcome Commanche,

1. Yes you are right. Disconnecting Negative Post only will do.
2. You have little to fear concerning short circuits when replacing the serpentine belt.
3. Don't get discouraged. Many of us hear spend days, weeks chasing down problems.

I am assuming that this is your first serpentine belt replacement? And you double checked how that belt goes around all the pulleys as per the sticker on the underside of the hood? If you did, and the belt is properly wound around the AC compressor then look to see if the clutch is engaging on it when you switch on the AC in the car.

Post Back more detailed information.

Karl

[comanche64]

Thanks coach: Yes I did double check routing of belt: It is properly installed.
I am going over this in my head;I don"t get the part about running Eng to let everything {reset}I do know I had gret air cond. prior to chamging belt/All because I removed positive cable/Makes me wonder what would happen if I had to replace Battery.Your suggestion is appreciated/comanche64

[comanche64]

[quote=comanche64]Thanks coach: Yes I did double check routing of belt: It is properly installed.
I am going over this in my head;I don"t get the part about running Eng to let everything {reset}I do know I had gret air cond. prior to chamging belt/All because I removed positive cable/Makes me wonder what would happen if I had to change battery.The compresser is not engaging/Your suggestions are good ones/comanche64

[12Ounce]

Did the elect connector to the ac clutch/compressor get disconnected or damaged in any way during the belt replacement?

[DRW1000]

And just to sum up - the disconecting of both the positive and negative had nothing to do with your new found problem - unless there was some huge Murphy's law thing happening

[comanche64]

Originally Posted by 12Ounce

Did the elect connector to the ac clutch/compressor getd
disconnected or damaged in any way during the belt replacement?

12Ounce: I did go back checked plug in just back of pulley-good-.. wiring good also.Thanks/ I also pulled wire plug at drier jumped it/I have done this on other vehicles had juice there/this will usally engage compresser clutch.didn"t workComanche64

[comanche64]

Originally Posted by DRW1000

And just to sum up - the disconecting of both the positive and negative had nothing to do with your new found problem - unless there was some huge Murphy's law thing happening

Hello DRW 1000:Yes I agree;Wife came in said Mechanic replace Belt for
100 Dollar estimate-I said I"ll change it for 25 Dollars/Belt removed and replaced 45 min.Wife drove it about 1 mile to store came back;said noise
gone/But no air-cond.I worked B-1-B bomber last 10 yrs.We had at times
what we called a Glitch/Pilots don"t like to hear what He saw as a glitch/and
no one would sign fix as a glitch/had to have referance by book/I think I'll
let Air Cond tech look at it.comanche64

[CoachKarl]

You get into trouble with that + battery terminal if you remove it first, and accidently ground it. (sparks fly, you jump, thing get melted etc.) I killed a battery once with a 1/4" ratchet handle, while twisting off the - terminal, I accidently let the handle fall onto the + terminal. OOOh what a show! I did that to my girlfriends (now wife's) car . . golly . . . the humiliation I . . to this day . . feel!

Yeah, if you got a friend who has an AC gauge let him have a look. But. If you still want a crack at fixing this As I recall, I had a "sudden" no AC situation and fixed it as follows.

1. With the car off.
2. Connect a solid 16 or 14 gauge wire to the + terminal on the compressor.
3. Have a buddy turn the car on, turn the AC on.
3. With the other end of the wire momentarily touch the + battery terminal.
4. If the AC clutch clicks on, GOOD, read on. If not, your comressor is bad.
5. Hold that makeshift + wire on the battery for about 30 seconds.
6. If the cold "tube" doesn't get cold, you need a freon charge.
7. If the "cold" tube doesn't gets cold, GOOD, read on. If not, you need a freon charge.
8. Your buddy gives you a thumbs up! AC is on! then replace that "drier" switch you were talking about. After this, I am unsure what to do.

9. My problem was that dryer switch. And for 5 years it's worked fine.

Karl

[wiswind]

Take one last look around the whole area that you were working in, just be be sure that you did not bump some electrical connector loose.

If you have a manual, check to see if the fuses involved are still good.
From my documentation for the '96, Fuse 21 in the passenger compartment fuse box ( I/P ), above and to the left of the driver's left foot, controls the A/C, and a few other things.

The PCM controls the A/C and will prevent the compressor from working under hard accelleration (wide open throttle sensed from throttle position sensor), while starting engine, high engine speeds, engine coolant temperature above a certain level, and low idle speed of 200 rpm below specified idle speed.

The A/C cycling switch, mounted to the side of the A/C accumulator/drier normally closed contacts enable current to flow to Compressor clutch.
The contacts close when the pressue inside the accumulator is about 40psi and above, they open when the pressure reaches about 28psi.
This switch prevents A/C operation under too cold of conditions, and prevents the cooling fins (that cool the passenger compartment) from icing over.

The A/C pressure cut-off switch is located in the high pressure line between the compressor and the condenser, and cuts the compressor OFF when the pressure reaches a certain level.
The A/C pressure cut-off switch also has a set of contacts that turn the radiator fans ON at high speed when the pressure is at a certain level and above, to cool the condensor coils in front of the radiator.

Try several settings to see if the A/C pulls in.
It should engage in Both A/C positions and in the Defrost setting.
My '96 A/C works in all the Heat settings as well.

The A/C compressor clutch relay is inside the Constant Control Relay Module ( CCRM ) which is located next to the battery. The connector comes up from the underside.
I have pictures of the CCRM in my pictures that the link in my signature will connect you to.
I do NOT think that the CCRM is the problem from anything you did, as there are several other relays in there also......including the fuel pump relay.

[comanche64]

Coach: I had exp a while back/chev pu.in A hurry shorted pos.It took several hrs to find lg red wire that runs across firewall had shorted on back side/I only found it by rotating wire then I saw it.I found three areas for every situation,. ( Diagnosis} {fix} (test} The last two easy;
The first box is where wars are won- Money is spent-lives are saved or lost.
Be it a DR.-Minister or Mechanic
I have checked every fuse;plug-in wire belt-only thing needed was the wire
directly to + on clutch comp.to pos at battery-A mechanic told me same thing you did without me telling him it had been suggested.Thanks Comanche

[CoachKarl]

Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl

[comanche64]

[quote=CoachKarl]Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl[/quote

Coach: I am still in first box;can"t move to second until I am sure of what to do.This one thing I know;before I replaced worn out belt.I had A great Air-Cond Compressor never a problem.I removed neg.from battery;I said to myself;why not removed the Postive also in case I might drop a tool.
Then replaced Belt easy.Reconected postive and the negative-I never had
arc;everything good.Started Eng;Wife drove to store;I said any problems
The car performance good--one thing No Air-Cond-Compressor clutch will not
engage;All fuses-all electrical connections-Routeing of Belt all good.
The C.D. Ford-Chilton had a paragraph stating If power is removed from P>C>M>drive ten miles to allow P.C.M to reset memory.I didn"t know A car
could have Alsheimers.I am sure of one other thing I will never remove postive cable again;one exception Battery replacement.Thanks Comanche.This would apply to Ford Winstar 3.6 year 96 only

[LeSabre97mint]

[quote=comanche64]

Originally Posted by CoachKarl

Wait, I don't understand,

Your philosophy is great but . . .

What did you do to fix the problem? This is very important! What was wrong with your AC? And how did the battery and belt replacement cause the problem?

Karl[/quote

Coach: I am still in first box;can"t move to second until I am sure of what to do.This one thing I know;before I replaced worn out belt.I had A great Air-Cond Compressor never a problem.I removed neg.from battery;I said to myself;why not removed the Postive also in case I might drop a tool.
Then replaced Belt easy.Reconected postive and the negative-I never had
arc;everything good.Started Eng;Wife drove to store;I said any problems
The car performance good--one thing No Air-Cond-Compressor clutch will not
engage;All fuses-all electrical connections-Routeing of Belt all good.
The C.D. Ford-Chilton had a paragraph stating If power is removed from P>C>M>drive ten miles to allow P.C.M to reset memory.I didn"t know A car
could have Alsheimers.I am sure of one other thing I will never remove postive cable again;one exception Battery replacement.Thanks Comanche.This would apply to Ford Winstar 3.6 year 96 only

Hello

Does your Heater/Air have an automatic temp control or manual?

I think what the book is refering to when it says that the car needs to be driven about 10 miles for the computer to "relearn" is for the computer to get the shift points back, and engine management data. I don't think the onboard computer tells the clutch on the compressor when to turn on. For that matter, it wouldn't be something that would be changing and the computer would have to compasate for it. (ie. engine wears....compression goes down a bit.....computer changes ....timing....EGR....stuff like that)

Lets check this thing out a bit backwards. Take an OHM meter and check for resistance on the two conections on the clutch. If there is resistance on the clutch...(the coil is good) do you have power to the plug? (of course this is with the engine running and air on)... If no power to the plug...do you have power to the psi switch on the high side? Also, take your OHM meter to the psi switch and check for resistance. (it shouldn't be open with psi in the system).

Something to think about and to check out.

Regards

Dan

[comanche64]

LeSabre: Hello got your msg had to paint trim on son"s house;I am back and I am focused.I believe you are absolutely right about the restution process;Let
car Idle;Then and only then;go for cruise;If a driving problem shows up;limp
home if you can;and be sure before next move;Its a computer control world;Nice when it is working;but more fickle than a mustang horse.

I was going to do the Ohm check at comp. clutch--But I don"t think my hands are steady enough.I did check the wire plug;disconnect no juice
while assistant brought eng to 1500 R.P.M.I think I will stop /after all tomorrow is another day.Comanche