Who's ready for some controversy!?!?!

[Muscletang]

Ok I've wanted to start this thread for a while now and decided to do it about a week before the movie comes out to allow some conversation before anybody sees this thing.

Also PLEASE don't turn this into a religion/athiest debate or go off topic. I want the debate and discussion to focus on Dan Brown's book and the subjects tied in with it.

As we all know the Da Vinci Code opens on May 19th and there has been a whole lot of controversy.

For those of you who don't know it's pretty much summed up in this sentence.

In "The Da Vinci Code," the Holy Grail is neither an object nor an objective. It symbolizes an earthshaking secret: Mary Magdalene bore a child with Jesus.

Ok this is nothing that is new to me. I know this little theory has been floating around before Dan Brown was even born. My dad told me he met a guy when he was in the Air Force and one of his hobbies was to do research to prove Christ was married.

Now why is there such an uproar over this book? I am a Christian and a believer and this doesn't offend me at all.

NOTE: Brown himself is a self-proclaimed Christian

I know people at my chruch are saying this is anti-Christian, it's out to ruin the Christian faith, it slams God and Jesus, blah blah blah.

NEWS FLASH, IT'S A WORK OF FICTION! Where are all these people when Indiana Jones was out? It said that the Holy Grail is in a temple in Northern Africa guarded by a knight from the first Cruisade. Double standards?

Here's a few examples of ideas in the Da Vinci Code that are proven false by history (I didn't write this, I saw this on a message board somewhere, feel free though to correct or debate it as I'm no historian):

1. "No Christian believed Christ was divine before the Emperor Constantine deified him in 325 A.D." You can read 300 years worth of writings from the Church Fathers professing Jesus as God before 325. Or you can look at the pagan Pliny the Younger's statement that the Christians sing "hymns unto Christus as unto a god."

2. "Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married." There is no evidence to support this. Not even the gnostic texts make that claim. The only "evidence" is Leonardo Da Vinci's Last Supper, in which John the Apostle looks feminine. But don't listen to any art historians or scholars, who are unanimous in saying it is John. Or Leonardo's notes, which also say it is John.

3. "Emperor Constantine edited the New Testament at Nicea." The New Testament canon was decided at the councils of Rome, Hippo, and Carthage; each taking place approximately a hundred years after Nicea. What Constantine did was commission 50 or so copies of the NT texts to make reparation for the destruction of NT texts done by the Roman Empire when Christians were still being persecuted.

So why is there still an uproar? I have come up with a couple of theories.

1. Some people don't have much faith - If your faith is questioned by a work of fiction when you claim to be a follower, you obviously got bigger problems. Instead of facing those problems though they go to the simple source, the book.

2. People can't picture Christ having sex - I'm serious about this one. I for one don't believe he got married because I think that wasn't his plan. If he did though, what's wrong with that? He came to live as a man and don't men get married? The thing is if he was married he probably had sex, and I guess most people just look down at that and something they can't acknowledge.

3. Preachers and members of most churches don't want people to question things - Yes, there is a gap in the Bible where Christ could have been married during the time. If he was, it isn't there, so what? Just because it wasn't mentioned doesn't mean it didn't happen. So I'm guessing preaches next Sunday don't want members coming up asking "How come..." "What if..." "Why doesn't..." when they don't have the answer.

Now, am I going to go see this movie? Yes.
Am I questioning my faith becuase of it? No.
Do I understand it's fiction but does have some factual evidence? Yes.
Am I shutting out the idea that Christ could have been married? No.


Alright then, debate.

[driftinggrifter2]

Well for one it also deals with a real group of people. I dont remember the name of the group but its the ones after tom hanks in the movie. They feel that the movie is going to put a bad picture of them in everyones mind.
Two the author has gone before and said that alot of this book holds merit. He said that he has talked to people of this secret sect of the church and some of the things in the book were fact. Which of course the sect denies.

[Broke_as_****]

I think alot of the uproar comes from people who don't know anything about the historical situation, the book, the movie, the bible or much else for that matter and have been told that the book/movie goes against their beliefs or confirms their suspicions so they get they're panties in a knot about it without really looking into it.

But then again I am a wee bit cynical.

[Nicole8188]

I think the Christians that are freaking out over it need to calm down. Like you said, it's a work of fiction. Dan Brown never expected the book to get this big. I think if people are so insecure in their religion that they have to freak out over a book, something's wrong...

I'm not a Christian, but even if I was this wouldn't bother me. Also, the group is called Opus Dei.

On a side note, I freaking loved this book. Angels & Demons was better though. Oh man, Dan Brown is such a good author...I'm so excited for The Solomon Key.

[AlbanyCartel]

This book instills doubt, and doubt...is the killer of faith.
Doubt, is the complete adversary of faith.

Faith is an all or nothing thing, there is no such thing as alittle faith.


I mean, religion operates on one thing, and one thing only: faith.
You either trust and follow your religion, or you don't.
However, having doubt causes you to question your religion.
And questioning leads to distrust.
And distrust leads to desertion.

I mean, after reading that book, do you truly view your religion in the same light? Do you still fully trust and follow its teachings?


Are you sure there isn't a little doubt in the back of your head?

Something which you are repressing and forcing out of mainstream thought?

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by AlbanyCartel

I mean, after reading that book, do you truly view your religion in the same light? Do you still fully trust and follow its teachings?


Are you sure there isn't a little doubt in the back of your head?

Something which you are repressing and forcing out of mainstream thought?

You know I kinda do agree what you're saying. I've read Angels & Demons. Its an ok book but I do question the author on why would he make up such stories like that? I know its fiction but I think it has some subliminal messages in that book.

If you're goin to have a fictional story and use Prophets or holy ppl as characters, that can lead ppl astray from there beliefs. In a way if they love the fiction story more than the non fiction...yeh definitely. Because you're only creating or imagining your faith in someone else's view and not a Prophet. Thats how I look at it.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by AlbanyCartel

This book instills doubt, and doubt...is the killer of faith.
Doubt, is the complete adversary of faith.

Doubt about what though? So what IF Jesus was married? Is there really anything wrong with that? I really don't think so.

Originally Posted by AlbanyCartel

I mean, after reading that book, do you truly view your religion in the same light? Do you still fully trust and follow its teachings?

Well I'll be honest, I haven't read the book. It's not because I don't believe it or don't want to, but because I just don't read much. Maybe after I see the movie I might give it a try.

My parents have though and they've told me all the stuff in it that's causing an uproar. They personally don't see what all the fuss is about and they haven't had any doubt or lost faith at all.

Originally Posted by AlbanyCartel

Are you sure there isn't a little doubt in the back of your head?

Nope.

Speaking of faith I was trying to find an interview with Dan Brown on Fox News and came across this little quote...

Dan Brown is capable of passing fiction for fact because Christians don’t know their faith — what and why they believe. That’s not Mr. Brown’s fault.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194665,00.html

[turtlecrxsi]

I agree with all of Muscletang's theories and am looking forward to seeing the movie. Why? Not for religious gratification or some Hollywood answering to a lack of faith or questioning of religion, but because I have always been interested in archeology, artifacts and symbology - which this movie happens to deal with (just like the "Indiana Jones" movies dealt with). It really is amazing that people are losing sleep over it.

I was raised Catholic so you already know how fucked up this is for my family, but wait there's more... My mother started to read the book because she likes to read fiction, but my dad prohibited her from continuing to read it and gave the book away. Can you believe that? He is studying to be a deacon so naturally he will obey everything the Pope declares as truth. My family is so closed minded that my mother doesn't even believe in the Gnostic Scrolls or Dead Sea Scrolls because the New Testament was written "by God's hand." Needless to say, I don't go to church anymore; although I still have faith in what I believe. How is that possible? I somehow became an open minded individual, which apparently according to Catholic teachings is a direct ticket straight to hell...

[turtlecrxsi]

Muscletang, you should read the book. It's a page turner and won't take more than a couple days to read it. The dialogue is sometimes a bit cheesy between Langdon (Hanks' character) and Sir Teabing (Ian McKellan's character) but there is a lot of action sequences that make it seem exciting; despite the religious stuff going on...

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by turtlecrxsi

Muscletang, you should read the book. It's a page turner and won't take more than a couple days to read it. The dialogue is sometimes a bit cheesy between Langdon (Hanks' character) and Sir Teabing (Ian McKellan's character) but there is a lot of action sequences that make it seem exciting; despite the religious stuff going on...

Yeah I've been thinking about it. I may go pick me up a copy sometime this weekend. As I said my mom read it and she loved it. She has told me a whole lot of good things and all this stuff going on just makes me more curious about it.

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Speaking of faith I was trying to find an interview with Dan Brown on Fox News and came across this little quote...



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,194665,00.html

Now that explains it.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

Now that explains it.

Do I detect a little bit of sarcasm or were you just getting right to the point?

Even if you don't believe what he talks about mellowboy you have to admit he does make some good points.

1. controversy and boycotting = box office success
Passion of the Christ? Fahrenheit 9/11?

2. if you have no knowledge of your faith, it's easy to become pursuaded

[mellowboy]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Do I detect a little bit of sarcasm or were you just getting right to the point?

Even if you don't believe what he talks about mellowboy you have to admit he does make some good points.

1. controversy and boycotting = box office success
Passion of the Christ? Fahrenheit 9/11?

2. if you have no knowledge of your faith, it's easy to become pursuaded

No not at all. I was referring to my first post...

Originally Posted by mellowboy

Its an ok book but I do question the author on why would he make up such stories like that? I know its fiction but I think it has some subliminal messages in that book.

Originally Posted by Muscletang

2. if you have no knowledge of your faith, it's easy to become pursuaded

I agree with you 100%

[Nicole8188]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

2. if you have no knowledge of your faith, it's easy to become pursuaded

That has to be right. It just seems right. Because I can't see how people can be making such a serious uproar over a book. It's just a book. And now, just a movie...

I consider myself fairly smart, and I understand lots of things, but this is something I just can't comprehend. I wonder if the people boycotting this are the same people that were boycotting Harry Potter.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by mellowboy

I agree with you 100%

Oh ok just making sure. Sorry for the mis-understanding.

Talking about this though made me think more on my 3rd theory. I started to think and remembered my preacher talking about the book and how it was "bad" and all.

He talks about all the things Dan Brown says and then goes on to show how they are wrong by pointing out verses in the Bible. Ok, I can see that but for most people that won't do. The Bible is just another book to them. Is it really too hard to do a Google search and look up historical and archeology facts to help back up your claim?

Or could it be that most people aren't ready or prepared to defend their religion? That or they just don't want to?