"Mexifornia"

[fredjacksonsan]

The title of this thread is in quotes because it is the title of a book. I'm not singling out any group of people.

Revisiting the illegal immigration subject, as I received the following in an email.

Discussion.

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his Latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestige of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"


1. "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.


"The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons and Corsicans."


2. Lamm went on: "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.


3. "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'"


4. Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture . I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."


5. "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."


6. "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."


7. "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other." "A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum", From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo." .


8. "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits and make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturist having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."


9. In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'


American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."


Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

[TexasF355F1]

I live in Texico. It frustrates me daily. Especially the only drivers with brake/taillights that don't work are mexicans.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

The title of this thread is in quotes because it is the title of a book. I'm not singling out any group of people.

Revisiting the illegal immigration subject, as I received the following in an email.

Discussion.

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his Latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestige of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"


1. "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.


"The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons and Corsicans."


2. Lamm went on: "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.


3. "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'"


4. Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture . I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."


5. "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."


6. "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."


7. "My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other." "A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum", From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo." .


8. "Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits and make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate." "Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturist having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."


9. In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'


American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."


Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.

That right there is a whole lot of speculation with not a lot of evidence to back up the wild claims. How many times can he say the same thing over and over? He also strikes me as an ignorant racist looking very hard to place the blame for all of the problems in this country on illegal immigrants, which is pretty ridiculous and rather becoming of a bigot. So yeah, I guess blacks and hispanics are the root cause of all the problems in this country. Makes sense...

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by thrasher

So yeah, I guess blacks and hispanics are the root cause of all the problems in this country. Makes sense...

Well there are two things we can pick from this...
A. Black people and hispanics cause more crime.
B. Most cops, judges, and juries are just racist in this country.

Very good read I must say. I think it does open people's minds up a little bit about the illegal problem going on here. I mean look at the English and Irish and all the shit they deal with on a daily basis. Do we really want an IRA type organization here?

[Rally Sport]

Originally Posted by TexasF355F1

I live in Texico. It frustrates me daily. Especially the only drivers with brake/taillights that don't work are mexicans.

Funny.. here in Texas the only ones that has brake lights that dont work seem to be all caucasian..

[03cavPA]

Europe has been struggling with the immigration problem for years. France and Italy are agonizing over the heavy influx of immigrants, making competition for scarce jobs even tougher.

I'm not gonna bring up any names, but we don't have to look too far in Europe for some really fine examples of racism. It's not just this country (USA). Protectionism and xenophobia (if this is what you really think this is) don't adhere to national boundaries.

Once the illegals become an even heavier burden on our shrinking social services resources, squeezing the law abiding taxpayers harder, we may see some strange legislation enacted yet. Some writers and sociologists have been predicting class wars and tax wars for years. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, but we haven't seen how bad it's going to get.

Lamm is right on a few points; the federal government certainly displays little to no committment with regards to upholding immigration laws in this country.

It's also quite interesting that the race card is trotted out any time anyone mentions this subject. (Muscletang, I'm not pointing any fingers at you; I know you didn't bring it up.) It's a lame way to attempt to squelch discourse, but it's complete bullshit. There's no ignoring the fact that the illegals are hispanic. In fact, they're Mexican nationals. We can't change that, and to suggest that they aren't breaking the law because they are a "minority" is just plain wrong headed and ignorant, and it further erodes our ability to enforce the law.

I don't want them gone because they're hispanic; I want them gone because they don't belong in this country and they broke the law to come here. There are plenty of people of hispanic descent who DO belong here; they obeyed the law and did it right.

I say, go ahead and hang whatever label you want on this, but it's time for people to use their own brains and stop letting the spineless PC crowd do their thinking for them.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Europe has been struggling with the immigration problem for years. France and Italy are agonizing over the heavy influx of immigrants, making competition for scarce jobs even tougher.

I'm not gonna bring up any names, but we don't have to look too far in Europe for some really fine examples of racism. It's not just this country (USA). Protectionism and xenophobia (if this is what you really think this is) don't adhere to national boundaries.

Once the illegals become an even heavier burden on our shrinking social services resources, squeezing the law abiding taxpayers harder, we may see some strange legislation enacted yet. Some writers and sociologists have been predicting class wars and tax wars for years. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, but we haven't seen how bad it's going to get.

Lamm is right on a few points; the federal government certainly displays little to no committment with regards to upholding immigration laws in this country.

It's also quite interesting that the race card is trotted out any time anyone mentions this subject. (Muscletang, I'm not pointing any fingers at you; I know you didn't bring it up.) It's a lame way to attempt to squelch discourse, but it's complete bullshit. There's no ignoring the fact that the illegals are hispanic. In fact, they're Mexican nationals. We can't change that, and to suggest that they aren't breaking the law because they are a "minority" is just plain wrong headed and ignorant, and it further erodes our ability to enforce the law.

I don't want them gone because they're hispanic; I want them gone because they don't belong in this country and they broke the law to come here. There are plenty of people of hispanic descent who DO belong here; they obeyed the law and did it right.

I say, go ahead and hang whatever label you want on this, but it's time for people to use their own brains and stop letting the spineless PC crowd do their thinking for them.

Yup; you can't change the reality of who it is that is entering the country illegally. Playing the race card certainly isn't a valid argument in this case.

An astute reader can see past any racist slant of the comments and realize that the things mentioned, though exaggerated, are already happening. Food for thought.

[thrasher]

I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Am I the only person who saw this? Especially the portion about all cultures being equal. It's right there in the article, and it doesn't take a genius to see that he in inferring that Black and Hispanic cultures are inferior. There's no "racist slant", that is racism from every possible angle, whether you like it/accept it or not.

rac·ism Audio pronunciation of "racism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others


There are certain ways to discuss and approach this topic, and you DO NOT approach the topic from an ignorant, racist point of view. All it shows is that you are arguing from a purely emotional standpoint, and that you have no acadmeic understanding of the situation. It's a basic principle of logical argument construction that once you have resorted to name calling or discriminatory remarks, that your argument has broken down. The language that he uses is dripping with emotion, it is NOT academic in any sense because procides no corroboration, which does not lend him credibility in any way. Y'all might agree with his sentiments and that is why you are so quick to defend, but step back for a minute and look at who you're defending.

[fredjacksonsan]

It's true that he takes a racist's point of view on several points. I'm not denying that in any way, shape or form. What I am saying that many of his points are valid, and can be seen to be occurring in the US as a result of the influx of illegals.

The fact that the majority of the illegals are Hispanic makes no difference to me. If they were Canadian, Icelandic or German I'd have the same opinion, which is: Be legal or be gone. It's that simple.

To me, a large wave of illegal immigrants into any country (again, regardless of their heritage) isn't immigration, but rather an invasion.

[03cavPA]

I agree with you, fred. In re-reading your original post, it should be noted that Lamm said that a "plan to destroy America would be carried out in such a manner.....", and THEN he made the points in his speech. Whether or not he really believes that minorities are inferior, or whether he's making the point that certain pseudo-intellectual groups want to relegate them to that status for political gain, is a matter of speculation and fodder for a lot of argumentative discourse.

He said that such a plan would be carried out in the fashion he enumerates. All anyone has to do is look around at our society over the past 4-5 decades, and they can see he's not too far off the mark. If it hasn't been an organized plan, then it's darn close.

We don't have to look too far to see how victimhood has been elevated darn near to a documented medical condition, and that anyone who disagrees is automatically a stupid, dirty, no good, ignorant whatever. In fact, anyone who thinks for themseves and disagrees with the PC party line is labeled as some kind of anti-progressive, and there must be something wrong with their level of intelligence.

Charley Reese (columnist) said a few years back that the PC crowd has been almost reptilian in their fanaticism toward those who won't toe the (PC) party line, taking over the universities and "progressive" think tanks throughout the country. He made some good points as well. Of course, there are a lot of liberals who think Charley Reese is all wet, but you can decide that for yourselves. Too many valid discussions are shouted down because someone is afraid of the "R" label.

If this doesn't stir it up, nothing will.

[thrasher]

^^^^So are you advocating racism? Do you think that it is acceptable to approach issues inexorably tied to race relations with a mindset of ignorance and bigotry, while showing no academic understanding of the merits of the issue?

There's no speculation as to whether he believes that minorities are inferior. His speech is painting a tale of what he perceives as the current situation in the United States. He attacks groups that claim that all cultures are equal, inferring that all in fact are not. Thus, some culture is superior --> Racism.

IMO, how we say things is just as important as what we say. The language he uses in his speech indicates his bias and ignorance. This has nothing to do with victimhood or political correctness. This has to do with showing respect and tolerance for a culture different than ours. Yes, the immigration problem is a BIG problem. Yes, we need to do something about it, and soon. No, we will not deal with it by failing to use logical arguments and resorting instead to emotion-driven discriminatory and racist remarks and attacks.

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by thrasher

^^^^So are you advocating racism? Do you think that it is acceptable to approach issues inexorably tied to race relations with a mindset of ignorance and bigotry, while showing no academic understanding of the merits of the issue?

Is that a question, an accusation, or a straw man argument?

[MonsterBengt]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Europe has been struggling with the immigration problem for years. France and Italy are agonizing over the heavy influx of immigrants, making competition for scarce jobs even tougher.

I'm not gonna bring up any names, but we don't have to look too far in Europe for some really fine examples of racism. It's not just this country (USA). Protectionism and xenophobia (if this is what you really think this is) don't adhere to national boundaries.

Once the illegals become an even heavier burden on our shrinking social services resources, squeezing the law abiding taxpayers harder, we may see some strange legislation enacted yet. Some writers and sociologists have been predicting class wars and tax wars for years. That doesn't mean it's going to happen, but we haven't seen how bad it's going to get.

Lamm is right on a few points; the federal government certainly displays little to no committment with regards to upholding immigration laws in this country.

It's also quite interesting that the race card is trotted out any time anyone mentions this subject. (Muscletang, I'm not pointing any fingers at you; I know you didn't bring it up.) It's a lame way to attempt to squelch discourse, but it's complete bullshit. There's no ignoring the fact that the illegals are hispanic. In fact, they're Mexican nationals. We can't change that, and to suggest that they aren't breaking the law because they are a "minority" is just plain wrong headed and ignorant, and it further erodes our ability to enforce the law.

I don't want them gone because they're hispanic; I want them gone because they don't belong in this country and they broke the law to come here. There are plenty of people of hispanic descent who DO belong here; they obeyed the law and did it right.

I say, go ahead and hang whatever label you want on this, but it's time for people to use their own brains and stop letting the spineless PC crowd do their thinking for them.

Sweden is letting in more immigrants than any country in europe. And not in general percentage, they let in more people each year than france, italy or germany. still sweden's like a 10th of their size.

We've been, and are falling apart like i dont know what.. The differance between Europe and the states is that over in the US, you can say stuff like 'We need to do something about the heavy imigration' without starting a civil war.

[eversio11]

While I don't really agree with him entirely, and his argument is incredibly vague and without suppot, I do like the idea that 'diversity' is tearing the country apart. It's all good embracing your cultural history, and to bring it to America, but you have to remember that you are now an American. We all have different cultural backgrounds, but we are all Americans. You are not a Mexican that lives in America only to send tax free money back to your family in Mexico.

[thrasher]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Is that a question, an accusation, or a straw man argument?

'Twas a question

Originally Posted by eversio11

While I don't really agree with him entirely, and his argument is incredibly vague and without suppot, I do like the idea that 'diversity' is tearing the country apart. It's all good embracing your cultural history, and to bring it to America, but you have to remember that you are now an American. We all have different cultural backgrounds, but we are all Americans. You are not a Mexican that lives in America only to send tax free money back to your family in Mexico.

That's just it, there's nothing wrong with celebrating customs from your native land, hundreds of millions of Americans do it already, it's just that the 50 million European immigrants from the mid-late 1800s and their children are now accepted as part of our American culture, but it seems that hispanics are not. Granted, a whole lot of them are here illegally, but a whole lot are also here legally. This issue goes deeper than illegal immigration, it reaches down to cultural acceptance and the apparent inability of a large group of Americans who are in fact unable to accept foreign culture. Ironic that a significant percentage of Americans are the descendants of European immigrants who came here not that long ago...