F1s with Z1 mirrors?

[f1lm]

Hi, folks. I'm new here and I'm crazy about the McLaren F1 like everyone here Looks like finally I found the heaven for McLaren diehards

My first question here. I've seen some photos of the silver F1 with the BMW Z1 mirrors on its A-pillars, not the standard mirrors. These mirrors resemble the A-pillar positioned mirrors of the XP1 prototype(correct?), but they are definitely not the prototype style.

This silver F1 as I remember should be of Ralph Lauren's collection. But I'm not sure why it has the Z1 mirrors? And does the mirrors come out of the factory or did Ralph did that by getting a pair of Z1 mirrors and put it on the Mac?? Any other F1 with such mirrors??

[tortoise]

Originally Posted by f1lm

This silver F1 as I remember should be of Ralph Lauren's collection. But I'm not sure why it has the Z1 mirrors? And does the mirrors come out of the factory or did Ralph did that by getting a pair of Z1 mirrors and put it on the Mac?? Any other F1 with such mirrors??

Five F1s have the high mirrors. Three were originally produced that way; the other two had the high mirrors retro-fitted by the factory.
The mirrors were done that way for visual reasons. That is, not only because they look better up high, but also because they function better in that position.

[hurstg01]

Originally Posted by tortoise

Five F1s have the high mirrors. Three were originally produced that way; the other two had the high mirrors retro-fitted by the factory.
The mirrors were done that way for visual reasons. That is, not only because they look better up high, but also because they function better in that position.

Being 32 years old, my memory's not as good as it used to be and i am at work at the mo so i'm not with all my files for the F1, but i remember the following cars have the high mirrors -

Chassis #040 - Blue with Black / Gold BBS rims - often seen giving it some heavy right boot round the Nurburbring owned by Flemke off pistonheads.com
Chassis #075 - Chris Dawes car seen in Driving Ambition
Ralph's car (#065???)

I can't remember the rest (except for the Clinic Model and maybe at least one of the XP's?...)

Come on guys, help out an old man

[F1 monster]

Originally Posted by tortoise

Five F1s have the high mirrors. Three were originally produced that way; the other two had the high mirrors retro-fitted by the factory.
The mirrors were done that way for visual reasons. That is, not only because they look better up high, but also because they function better in that position.

They create more drag and put more stress on the A-pillar, so I don't think it's fair to say that they work better. Certainly they look better, and cooler, and are in keeping with the original intent of the designer. But they don't work better in the higher position.

[tortoise]

Originally Posted by F1 monster

They create more drag and put more stress on the A-pillar, so I don't think it's fair to say that they work better. Certainly they look better, and cooler, and are in keeping with the original intent of the designer. But they don't work better in the higher position.

To clear up a couple of things:

I said that the high mirrors were better for "visual reasons". One is the way that they look, the other is the way that they function, as in, how well the driver can see behind him.
For some drivers, the view to the standard mirrors is partly blocked by the lower part of the A-pillar. Obviously this is a problem for no one with the high mirrors.
Even without that blockage, in use the lower mirrors are somewhat awkward. You need to bring your view from the road to one mirror at fender level, then raise your view to the higher interior mirrors, and then find the other lower mirror before returning your sight to the road ahead.
With the high mirrors, you can take in everything behind with a single horizontal sweep of all four mirrors. They work better.

It is true that the high mirrors are less aerodynamically efficient. At anything below non-rev-limited maximum speed, however, this is pretty much an irrelevancy. In other words, it is an irrelevancy.
The A-pillars on the high mirror cars were strengthened by the factory to allow for the extra stress.

With respect to Hurst's post, the orange car with high mirrors pictured in DA is #071. In legend it may be associated with Dawes, but 071 is still alive and well, in pristine orange condition. It lives in Germany.

The other two cars with high mirrors are in private collections and virtually never see the light of day.

[F1 monster]

Agree on it being a better setup for the driver.

Thanks for the info on the other cars with the Z1 mirrors. The ones that are in private collections...do you know which countries they are in, or their chassis numbers?

[f1lm]

Thank you guys. But is there any production car with the exact XP1 style high mirrors? Those are flat and with indicator lights.
And why the Z1 mirrors? Are those factory standard mirrors and retro-fitted ones the same in looks?

[tortoise]

Originally Posted by f1lm

Thank you guys. But is there any production car with the exact XP1 style high mirrors? Those are flat and with indicator lights.
And why the Z1 mirrors? Are those factory standard mirrors and retro-fitted ones the same in looks?

The prototype mirrors with indicators were designed from the outside, with no consideration for how they might work.
The only car with the mirrors with indicators was the "Clinic Model", which no longer exists.
After the factory were informed by the UK Department of Transport that the original high mirrors were unacceptable in principle, they realised that there had never ascertained whether they could have got access to motors that were small enough to fit inside the protoype's small housings (sharing space with indicator lights).
The Z1 mirrors were found by chance by an F1 road car engineer. About half-way through the production run one customer pushed McLaren to give him high mirrors. This engineer at the time happened to have been looking at the Z1 as a possible personal car. Because of this, the Z1 mirrors were at the front of his mind. The fit the bill for the F1's A-pillars, the customer found them acceptable, so they were used.
The high mirrors look the same both as factory production items (3x) and as factory retro-fitted (2x). There is no reason why they should not, so long as the splice to fit them to the A-pillar is done properly. As you can imagine, the factory do it properly.