Rear-mounted turbo?

[sheetmagnet]

I was just browsing around svspower.com at all of their work with Vipers, and they have one on there that a guy put a single turbo on... he rear-mounted it somewhat down the exhaust and ran it back up to the motor without an intercooler and claimed appx 680 ft/lbs on the dyno...

Any ideas for Neon use? Anyone ever tried running a big big turbo considerably farther from the motor without an intercooler on a streetable 4-banger?

[das2123]

Originally Posted by sheetmagnet

IAny ideas for Neon use? Anyone ever tried running a big big turbo considerably farther from the motor without an intercooler on a streetable 4-banger?

It would be a waste of time and money. They are generaly designed for vehicles where engine bay room is a problem, like Fbodys. The neon engine bay has plenty of room for the turbo and besides with the small 4 cylinder neon, you'd have some serious trubo lag if it were mounted under the bumper.

[sheetmagnet]

Hmm that's what I thought (about the gaseous flow < normal compared to a V10 in the same pipe)... but figured I'd volley the question out there and see if anyone spiked lol

[das2123]

Originally Posted by sheetmagnet

Hmm that's what I thought (about the gaseous flow < normal compared to a V10 in the same pipe)... but figured I'd volley the question out there and see if anyone spiked lol

Hey if you don't ask you won't know. I know on some forums, you will get flamed for asking a question like that, but not everyone has the time to research and read. I undertsand that and try to help out.

[TEXSRT4]

even the v8 rearmount turbos have big time lag if compared to similar power levels on a manifold-mounted turbos. as a turbo guy, i have to say im not a big fan of rearmounts, except if you have no room under the hood, in which case your just making due with what you have. not worth it if you can avoid it

[sheetmagnet]

Originally Posted by TEXSRT4

even the v8 rearmount turbos have big time lag if compared to similar power levels on a manifold-mounted turbos. as a turbo guy, i have to say im not a big fan of rearmounts, except if you have no room under the hood, in which case your just making due with what you have. not worth it if you can avoid it

Well, I was thinking more in the interest of 1/4-mile brackets, especially with a 5-spd, in which case you can get some amount of spool time before actually launching, as opposed to normal driving or other "spontaneous" mechanics behind it. I understand that the farther it is mounted, the longer the spool time, etc., and less potential power is produced. I was more curious than anything though... seen some rather whacky experiments with 4-cyls before (like a guy that tried mounting a turbo and a supercharger on the same motor and tried tuning it to run similar to a 2-stroke but on alcohol... supposedly the torque curve on it was flat from almost even idle, kind of like a tractor-pull motor).

[TEXSRT4]

that is very doable...in fact, i have toyed with the idea of a s/c and a turbo on my srt4. whipple makes a blower that will bolt right up, and with a very healty sized turbo and an AEM EMS system, you sohuld be able to make some monster power and have a FLAT torque curve

[das2123]

Originally Posted by TEXSRT4

whipple makes a blower that will bolt right up

Really? Why would they make a S/C for a turbo'd car?

[TEXSRT4]

its for the PT cruiser...which just happens to share an identical motor/head as the srt4. this means that the two will go right together with very little modification

[sheetmagnet]

Originally Posted by das2123

Really? Why would they make a S/C for a turbo'd car?

I used to know a guy who was basically an idiot, that brought up the idea of doing it to his '98 GTP. At first I wrote it off as BS, but after thinking about it I researched it and came up with some very interesting concepts of actually doing it on a passenger vehicle...

There are two big drawbacks to why it isn't done, from what I can tell. First, the upside of combining the two is that it creates a LOT of heat, and therefore a huge amount of intercooled plumbing would have to be crammed in the doghouse to accomodate anything even close to a street-driven car. The second problem was boost control... by keeping extreme manifold pressure at all RPM's (including idle) it is much trickier to control boost and timing, especially with the higher temperatures, pressures, and air mass variance. I have heard that it is kind of like the H-bomb of motor designs... it would be hard to build a motor strong enough to withstand the amount of pressure and heat generated from the potential power of a setup like this.

Tractor-pull guys use a similar concept (as far as fluid dynamics is concerned) like this to achieve the similar power requirements. They mount an enormous turbo off the exhaust manifold of their motors about 300% the size of what it should be, and then here's the trick... they run high-pressure fuel lines and injectors into the EXHAUST manifold (they do it a lot with diesels to). That way, they can sit at idle and flick a switch, and BOOM... fresh fuel hits that hot-ass exhaust and blows up right into the inlet of the turbo, and spools that sucker up past 60,000 RPM just above IDLE... kind of like the afterburners on a fighter-jet. The result? They get almost all the torque that their engine can possibly produce or handle, from just above idle, or any RPM they want... now you know why you always see so much damn high-pressure smoke and flame belching out of their stacks at the fairgrounds. It ain't for show, it's for raw power.

So, anyone wanna try this on an SRT4? he he he...

[TEXSRT4]

its called anti-lag...and all AEM EMS computers come programed to use it. its as simple as selecting a couple items from a pull down menu. helps spool it up pretty quick

i still like the twin charge. its very possiable. you will need methanol/alchol/water injection and a full standalone computer to get away with it. now...as of this past week, we have both options available to us!!!

PSI-FI motorsports use to make a turbo kit for the supercharged mini coopers and the supercharged cobalt/redlines. greddy or hks use to make a kit for the MR2 and there is a meguiars (i belive) integra running around with a similar kit as well. its totally doable, just requires lots of patience and time

[sheetmagnet]

Originally Posted by TEXSRT4

...its totally doable, just requires lots of patience and time

...and money lol. I think the patience and time to tune everything down to a "T" would be the most nerve-racking part of it. It's definitely not something that a novice should attempt!

[das2123]

Originally Posted by TEXSRT4

PSI-FI motorsports use to make a turbo kit for the supercharged mini coopers and the supercharged cobalt/redlines.

Now if I could just figure out how to get the mini cooper's S/C on my neon

[TEXSRT4]

thats where whipple comes in. throw a PTcruiser/srt4 head (DOHC) and the whipple will bolt right up. good as new

[das2123]

Originally Posted by TEXSRT4

thats where whipple comes in. throw a PTcruiser/srt4 head (DOHC) and the whipple will bolt right up. good as new

Yes, but getting all that under the hood is a PITA. I could use a modded hood or fabricate something, but then I lose the sleeper look. Gonna stick with the SRT-4 swap when the money and time are right!