Removing the Throttle Body- Help! (94)

ssjones · #1 03-24-2006, 10:51 PM

I've read the codes for my SES light issues and have to replace the TPS. It's mounted on the bottom of the throttle body with inaccesible screws. To replace, the throttle body has to come off. Some fiendish ghoul designed the TB with three fasteners. The bottom fastener is covered by a bracket which is held to the bottom of the intake manifold by two fasteners. I cannot get the left most bracket fastener off because the exhaust manifold obstructs any socket or wrench (1/4", 3/8" with wobble extension, regular & deepwell tried of both sizes). Why this is designed in this manner, I cannot tell you but I've just about given up. PLEASE someone tell me how the TB can be removed without completely removing the exhaust manifold. My related post is at:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...=1#post3940054

David DeVoe · #2 04-02-2006, 09:37 PM

I'm new here and just saw your post so I'm sure that by now you have removed and reinstalled your TB. Just did the same job on my 94 Lesabre and found that I had to use a 13mm box end wrench to break that nut loose then I used a flex coupling with a very shallow 13mm socket to remove it. All in all not a very hard job just annoying. I just retired from the 3800 plant after being involved with the engine since it's start in 88. Yes, some of the engineering in it makes you wonder how they thought anyone would work on it in the field. BTW changing my TPS improved driveability greatly.

ssjones · #3 04-03-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeVoe

I'm new here and just saw your post so I'm sure that by now you have removed and reinstalled your TB. Just did the same job on my 94 Lesabre and found that I had to use a 13mm box end wrench to break that nut loose then I used a flex coupling with a very shallow 13mm socket to remove it. All in all not a very hard job just annoying. I just retired from the 3800 plant after being involved with the engine since it's start in 88. Yes, some of the engineering in it makes you wonder how they thought anyone would work on it in the field. BTW changing my TPS improved driveability greatly.

David:
Thanks for the reply. I finally gave up and let a local service station remove the TB. They used a stubby 13 mm wrench. I should have cut off a regular 13 mm wrench and saved the $116 they charged (also broke one of the bolts on the TPS). I even cut off a 13 mm socket for a more shallow reach, no dice. The car now runs like a champ again with the new TPS.

Maybe you can help me identify this vacuum line that runs over the top of the TB cover. I found it hanging loose. The line on the right of the picture with the numbers/letters is just hanging. I believe it is related to the cruise control, and I also had a cruise control SES code. I believe it should go over to the firewall, but can't locate a fitting. Here's a photo of the line. If you can identify it, that would be great!
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293LYtGPC

ssjones · #4 04-03-2006, 08:23 AM

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293LYtGPC

In this shot, I'm holding the vacant line and you have a little different perpspective of the location.

David DeVoe · #5 04-03-2006, 11:35 AM

Hi,
I responded by email but then thought I'd check the thread to see if I could open the pics. I did and if you are pointing to the smallest of the 3 running over the TB then it definitely goes to the cruise servo. Let me know how it works out
Dave

ssjones · #6 04-03-2006, 11:46 AM

Dave:
Thanks for confirming. Can you explain where the cruise servo is located? I thought it was on the left firewall, near the ECM but don't seem to see the unit (or what I perceive it should look like).
I also have an item on the firewall, right in the center, to the beside the brake master cylinder. It is oval, about 6" in diameter. It appears to be a housing of somesort. There is a small hole in the center, I'm wondering if that the cruise servo and the fitting attachement is missing?

David DeVoe · #7 04-03-2006, 12:41 PM

The cruise control servo is mounted below and slightly to the rear of the TB. The small line plugs into it using a rubber elbow. The attachment point is on the left side right next to another larger vacuum line. The servo itself has a rubber diaphram on the back side....you can't miss it. Again, let me know how you make out.
I think the thing on the firewall that you mentioned is the blower motor for the HVAC
Dave

ssjones · #8 04-03-2006, 06:00 PM

Dave:
The hard line in the picture that is at my fingertip runs to that cannister with the rubber diaphram. Still at a loss where the larger line, with number markings goes. Any chance it vents to air? (seems unlikely) The vacuum routing sticker on my radiator is old and the lettering is worn off describing that line.

David DeVoe · #9 04-03-2006, 09:09 PM

I'll go out in the a.m and see if I can identify that line on my car. Shouldn't be so hard. On your cruise control code I would disconnect the + battery terminal for a min or 2 and see if the code goes away.

ssjones · #10 04-03-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeVoe

I'll go out in the a.m and see if I can identify that line on my car. Shouldn't be so hard. On your cruise control code I would disconnect the + battery terminal for a min or 2 and see if the code goes away.

Thanks, that would be a big help. Is the picture I posted good enough?
I had the codes reset at Advance Auto and so far, no SES light has returned. However, we turned the cruise control off at the stalk and I haven't tried to use it (18 year old daughter never used it).

David DeVoe · #11 04-04-2006, 11:10 AM

The only line on my engine that matches the size of the one you're pointing at and also has lettering on it goes to the firewall and connects to the HVAC system. That is located right next to the brake booster. Look at your car and see if a line goes from near the TB to an area on the firewall about 2 to 4 inches to the right of the booster. If not thats where that line goes. If there is a line already there you will need to take a pic with a wider field of view and more contrast so we can get oriented. Lmk
Dave

ssjones · #12 04-04-2006, 04:31 PM

Eureka! You nailed it. The module beside the brake booster has a hole in the middle, the fitting must be missing, hopefully not broken off. This would also explain why the vent function for HVAC won't work! (inoperable for over a year!) The HVAC control has been stuck on window defrost, I thought it was a problem with the dash control unit or the vacuum line connections under the glove-box. Another potential problem, the bottom of that housing is broken and I can see a little exposed foam.

I'll snap a photo and post this evening. Any way you can take a photo of the fitting to your line?

Thanks for sticking with me on this, the HVAC problem has mystified me for over a year!

ssjones · #13 04-04-2006, 06:15 PM

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293FRXOuR
This is a close-up of the HVAC module. There appears to be a missing nipple/attachment for the vacuum line. You can also see the errant vacuum line on the bottom of the photo.
The HVAC controls inside the car have not worked for a while and it only functions in Defrost mode (thankfully, or I'd have been forced to resolve). My guess is, I knocked off the fitting when putting on a new 02 sensor, located directly below.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293rqmXnL
Full-width shot of the firewall, module and vacuum line.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293oEZnue
Close-up of the bottom of the HVAC module. A piece of the housing cracked and there is a 1" hole. Hopefully that is not a problem, but since a vacuum line is involved, might be.

David DeVoe · #14 04-04-2006, 09:09 PM

Maybe we finally got it. I know about this line and its affect on the HVAC system because after changing the rear bank plugs in my car the A/C quit working properly. At the time a friend of mine was a repair man at Buick City. He just laughed and told me to reconnect the vacuum line that I knocked off while rooting around in there. I thought he was nuts until I looked and sure enough there it was. Hooked er up and had complete A/C again.
Look closely at your firewall just to the right of the brake booster. You should see what looks like a small horizontal shelf, approx 1/8 " thick. That line goes to a male fitting located just under that shelf. No other fitting is required just push it onto the plastic pipe under that shelf like thing and presto chango all other things being equal your system will work correctly again. That tube supplies vacuum to an actuator that moves vent doors to redirect the flow of air thru the dash.
Lmk how it works out ok?
Dave

ssjones · #15 04-04-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeVoe

Maybe we finally got it. I know about this line and its affect on the HVAC system because after changing the rear bank plugs in my car the A/C quit working properly. At the time a friend of mine was a repair man at Buick City. He just laughed and told me to reconnect the vacuum line that I knocked off while rooting around in there. I thought he was nuts until I looked and sure enough there it was. Hooked er up and had complete A/C again.
Look closely at your firewall just to the right of the brake booster. You should see what looks like a small horizontal shelf, approx 1/8 " thick. That line goes to a male fitting located just under that shelf. No other fitting is required just push it onto the plastic pipe under that shelf like thing and presto chango all other things being equal your system will work correctly again. That tube supplies vacuum to an actuator that moves vent doors to redirect the flow of air thru the dash.
Lmk how it works out ok?
Dave

So you are saying the line does not go to the housing on the fire wall in this picture? Sure looks like something is missing there, the hole with tape around it?? I'll look for that spot under the shelf you described, that would be too easy!
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...62237293FRXOuR

POST REPLY TO THIS THREAD