Bad PCS?

[jessep28]

My 00' GT with 52k will start shifting hard intermittently. I have noticed the following characteristics:

1) It usually happens after a lot of stop and go driving.
2) Car does not buck, but does shift hard and fast with a light "thud"
3) There is a whining sound coming from the drivers side engine/tranny area
4) No trouble codes are throwing an SES light
5) After car cools down, problem disappears
6) Hard shifting occurs through all range of gears.

Is this an issue that I can drive on until Monday (its a Friday)? I will take it to an ATRA certified tranny shop early next week.

From reading, I think it's just the PCS issue that can plague the 4T65E tranny.

This stupid car, I love it to death but it seems like it has all the stereotypical issues, even with all the low miles. Oh well, I could be paying a ton more for a turtle with braces .

Thanks in advance,


Jesse

[BNaylor]

PCS. I know a guy with a Buick Regal that put 80K miles on his 4T65E tranny with a bad PCS and finally had to change it. No GP owner is immune from this problem. Good luck!

Get it scanned with a trans capable scanner and DTC 1811 or 1810 will probably show.

BTW -1811 (Maximum Adapt/Long Shift) does not trigger a SES light but the code is saved for retrieval.

[jessep28]

Yeah, that's what I figured.

20 min after I posted, I drove the car again and it was shifting longer than what it seems to before it went into its high pressure shift routine. Then 4 hours after sitting it shifted just normal.

Thanks for all your help. I'm just waiting for the Suburban to turn in front of me totaling my car now! haha

[jessep28]

Did he go 80k WITH the hard shift problem or did the problem crop up at 80k?

That hard shifting just scared the hell out of me when it started doing it. I couldn't go that long on a bad tranny component.

I feel like I am reaping the rewards of being one of the few college students who save money...lol. At least this will be a $500-600 repair and not a $2000+ rebuild .

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jessep28

Did he go 80k WITH the hard shift problem or did the problem crop up at 80k?

That hard shifting just scared the hell out of me when it started doing it. I couldn't go that long on a bad tranny component.

I feel like I am reaping the rewards of being one of the few college students who save money...lol. At least this will be a $500-600 repair and not a $2000+ rebuild .

His problem showed up at around 80K miles and and it was finally repaired at 160K miles. The only point I see is although the 4T65E tranny can be pretty flaky it sounds quite durable too. So although the harsh shifting feels bad it probably won't destroy the tranny or drivetrain. He babied it with treatments of Sea Foam and Lubegard. When he would hear it first start singing (whining) he would pull off the road and turn the ignition off for a few minutes then restart. After that it would run fine even for weeks at a time.

On the PCS job most of us our at the mercy of either the dealer or a tranny shop. I would never recommend a PCS job DIY. To get the side cover off and to the PCS solenoid the engine and tranny has to be dropped down or tilted by dropping the subframe. Also, the driver's side axle half shaft must be removed along with a bunch of parts. So $500 -$600 is well worth it.

[jessep28]

If this has been a known issue with this transmission over many models and years, why didn't GM just fix the component or system design so it doesn't happen?

Granted, if this issue wasn't showing up for 50-80k miles I can sympathize that engineers didn't know about this problem in the tranny design right away.

Its stuff like this that makes foreign cars owner all giddy about their Honda or Mazda that they own. Granted, they do have a reputation as more reliable cars. But you pay for that though incredibly high resale values, high market costs of new cars and higher maintenance costs with more expensive parts. One dealer when I bought my GP was trying to sell me a 98' Nissan with like 125,000 miles on it for like $9,000. My sister owns an Accord and that thing drives worse and has had more problems that my Grand Prix!

I think the Japanese auto makers are good at building small passenger cars, but still lack on the larger sedans and trucks. However, they are catching up.

Also, the owners don't realize that the c**py GM assembly plants they cite are run by the same Unions that manufacture their Honda or BMW in the US.

Anyways, sorry about the tangent .

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jessep28

If this has been a known issue with this transmission over many models and years, why didn't GM just fix the component or system design so it doesn't happen?

Granted, if this issue wasn't showing up for 50-80k miles I can sympathize that engineers didn't know about this problem in the tranny design right away.

Its stuff like this that makes foreign cars owner all giddy about their Honda or Mazda that they own. Granted, they do have a reputation as more reliable cars. But you pay for that though incredibly high resale values, high market costs of new cars and higher maintenance costs with more expensive parts. One dealer when I bought my GP was trying to sell me a 98' Nissan with like 125,000 miles on it for like $9,000. My sister owns an Accord and that thing drives worse and has had more problems that my Grand Prix!

I think the Japanese auto makers are good at building small passenger cars, but still lack on the larger sedans and trucks. However, they are catching up.

Also, the owners don't realize that the c**py GM assembly plants they cite are run by the same Unions that manufacture their Honda or BMW in the US.

Anyways, sorry about the tangent .

I can't say I disagree and know where you are coming from. The tranny situation is a sore subject for a lot GP and "W" body owners. GM supposedly resolved the issue in later model years but as usual too late. You'd figure they would design a tranny to make at least 100K miles before the first failure. However, they have represented the fact that no service is required until 100K miles.

If your car was still under warranty GM would cover the repair but once expired everyone is out there. Nothing was made retroactive or was there ever an official recall notice. Just about all possible problems with the 4T65E tranny are covered in various GM technical service bulletins. The one that is really scary is the 4th gear clutch spline stripping because they failed to use hardened splines.

On Japanese and Korean cars I wouldn't own one because they are overrated and I don't believe the crash protection is good. I've seen more foreign cars totalled out than American.

[maxwedge]

Yep, my od clutch hub was done at 70k.

[jessep28]

Originally Posted by bnaylor3400

I can't say I disagree and know where you are coming from. The tranny situation is a sore subject for a lot GP and "W" body owners. GM supposedly resolved the issue in later model years but as usual too late. You'd figure they would design a tranny to make at least 100K miles before the first failure. However, they have represented the fact that no service is required until 100K miles.

If your car was still under warranty GM would cover the repair but once expired everyone is out there. Nothing was made retroactive or was there ever an official recall notice. Just about all possible problems with the 4T65E tranny are covered in various GM technical service bulletins. The one that is really scary is the 4th gear clutch spline stripping because they failed to use hardened splines.

On Japanese and Korean cars I wouldn't own one because they are overrated and I don't believe the crash protection is good. I've seen more foreign cars totalled out than American.

It's too bad for GM. Most customers just want their cars to work all the time. It sad when major components have to fail. Especially when the problem could have been stopped at the design stage. But to give them some slack, the automatic transmission is not a simple piece of machinery.

As a business student and from experience, I know that when a customer has a bad product, they will tend to have a tarnished image of the whole brand itself. I find this true especially with cars. I know of several people who because of ONE problem with their Ford or other model will not ever think of buying from that brand again.

I still have faith that GM can put out a quality product. They are trying to get better, but still have a long way to go. I just hope it happens before I open the Wall Street Journal one morning to a front page story announcing the purchase of bankrupt GM by KIA or Hyundai.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jessep28

I just hope it happens before I open the Wall Street Journal one morning to a front page story announcing the purchase of bankrupt GM by KIA or Hyundai.

Or worse yet......Toyota or Honda.

[jessep28]

It's being checked out as of this morning. I took the long way hoping to warm the tranny enough to reproduce the problem..no luck.

Anyways, from recollection I was either slowing down from 45mph then applied gas or reached that speed crusing when I felt the symptoms begin. Now, could that be a torque converter issue? If I am corret from reading on here, the Torque Converter Clutch disengages around 45 mph.

Im still leaing towards the PCS, but the unifiorm speed I was decelerating from or accelerating past when issues started is possibly a sign.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by jessep28

It's being checked out as of this morning. I took the long way hoping to warm the tranny enough to reproduce the problem..no luck.

Anyways, from recollection I was either slowing down from 45mph then applied gas or reached that speed crusing when I felt the symptoms begin. Now, could that be a torque converter issue? If I am corret from reading on here, the Torque Converter Clutch disengages around 45 mph.

Im still leaing towards the PCS, but the unifiorm speed I was decelerating from or accelerating past when issues started is possibly a sign.

Probably still the PCS solenoid. It will exacerbate problems like making the TCC lock/unlock function look bad. There is a TCC-PWM solenoid too.

They are both located on the valve body and sit three inches away from each other on the left hand side. I'd have both solenoids replaced.

Have the shop scan for tranny DTC error codes? If P1811 shows up then it will support replacement of the PCS solenoid. TCC may also have codes.

Good luck!

[wlkjr]

Shortly after I had the fluid changed in my transmission I had a hard downshifting and slight bucking one morning as I was coming to a stop. Did this about twice and never has done it again. Now have over 305K miles on it and still shifts slick as a button. One of my friends had to have his wife's Accord transmission rebuilt to the tune of $2200 and it only had 80,000 on it. I know neither of them are hard drivers.
Do you suppose some of these issues are because of rough driving? I'm the only driver of mine and I've taken really good care of it. Now I do tend to get a little fast on the Interstates but that is not hard on them.

[troy1]

If the PCS is sticky it will come back. the PCS controls line pressure during shifts and at other times. You sould replace it when it acts up again. As for the Accord let me guess it was a 97-01 model year with bad bearing on the diff.

[BNaylor]

Good suggestion Troy. And we all know it is a design and quality defect. Has nothing to do with how you drive your car. It affects any GM with the 4T65E. That includes Regal, Century, Intrigue, Lumina, Bonneville, Impalas and etc. not just Grand Prix SE/GT/GTP.

BTW - When you get a bad or sticky PCS you will know it.