'04 venture - leaky intake

[bleepster]

well, took my '04 venture with 51k on it to get an oil change at the dealership where i bought it.

they called me back after 5 minutes and showed me the intake leak on the passenger side.

he already called GM and he said to me "since there are not a lot of miles on this van, they (meaning GM) will cover all but $250 of the repair"

i acted all excited and said "wow that's great!!!!! however, i have a $100 deductible warranty " and i pulled out my warranty information.

long story short, it will be covered - less the $100.

i have a copy of the TSB for this problem, however it only goes up to year 2003. I suspect that '04 has this problem, and i assume it has noting to do with a faulty intake gasket. i wonder what the problem could be?

should i enforce that they follow the repair procedure according to this TSB? I think i am going to ask them to install all new bolts as well, and ask for my old ones back.

while torn apart, anything else they should look for?

[Huney1]

"i have a copy of the TSB for this problem, however it only goes up to year 2003."

PLEASE Sir, I BEG of you, PLEASE give us the TSB number or bulletin number or whatever so we can present it to our Chevy/GM dealers who say they know nothing of such a TSB. I have a 2000 with 63.5K miles on it and sooner or later 'prolly have to get the intake manifold gasket replaced and sure would like to have the number of that TSB to present to Mr Goodwrench. In another thread GM denied any knowledge of such a TSB to promoguy. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...20#post3908720

"should i enforce that they follow the repair procedure according to this TSB?" Absolutely, positively, and I can not see why they would not follow it to the letter because GM instructions on exactly "how to" are in the TSB.

"I think i am going to ask them to install all new bolts as well, and ask for my old ones back." Yes, you definitely want new bolts because they all are not the same length and new bolts are a part of the "fix."

"while torn apart, anything else they should look for?" The plugs are good for 100K miles but since they have it torn apart plugs are easy to get to so I'd tell them to put new spark plugs in and maybe a new thermostat. Oil & filter change shoud go with the job and draining old coolant and replace with new.

[bleepster]

TSB Bulletin No: 03-06-01-010
Date: March 2003

i have a pdf file of it i found on the net. I will be glad to e-mail it to anyone who ask me via Private Message

[Huney1]

Originally Posted by bleepster

TSB Bulletin No: 03-06-01-010
Date: March 2003

i have a pdf file of it i found on the net. I will be glad to e-mail it to anyone who ask me via Private Message

I'd like to have the pdf file but I don't know how to e mail you via private message.

[bleepster]

if you click on my name - a box comes up, one of the items is "send bleepster a private message"

click that then send me your e-mail addy

[Huney1]

http://www.noln.net/features/feature3.html

"GM admits to the defect in two service bulletins. First one is
#03-06-01-010, Date March 2003. Other bulletin is #vss20030024 dated
04-MAR-2003. Tell dealer you want a goodwill policy extended to you in
compliance with these bulletins. If refused, sue in small claims court
and subpoena these bulletins. They'll settle."

[AJT1961]

Make sure they carefully follow the torque specs on the intake manifold bolts or you'll be going back for new main bearings, as over-torquing distorts the block and prevents the main bearings from lubricating properly.

[Glen_T]

Sorry, but there is no way that the little M8 bolts on the intake manifold are going to distort anything on the iron block of the 3.4L.....you could torque until you strip the threads and the block wouldn't even know you were doing anything.....Glen

[bleepster]

anyway - no way to monitor them torquing. all you can do is ask - and they will say "yes"

[Huney1]

"Sorry, but there is no way that the little M8 bolts on the intake manifold are going to distort anything on the iron block of the 3.4L.....you could torque until you strip the threads and the block wouldn't even know you were doing anything.....Glen"

WHEW! AJT1961 had me going there for a while Glen, thanks for the clarification. The intake manifold bolt holes are kind'a-sort'a on top of the block and, (I quote), "over-torquing distorts the block and prevents the main bearings from lubricating properly." Hmmm, said I. That must be one sorry piece of metal GM made the block out of because the main bearings are way down in the bottom of the engine and it distorts/twists so badly the main bearings aren't properly lubricated? Naaahhh . . . .

Now that Bleepster provided us with the TSB to get it fixed free, I wonder how many people who paid for the TSB repair are going to print out the TSB and take it to Mr Goodwrench and say, "Give me back my money!" And how about those that went to all the trouble and fixed it themselves. WHOA!

[bleepster]

Astonishes me that I made a post to the MODS attenion, even PM'd the mods asking them to post this TSB for all to download whenever they want. and i got NO response from anyone.

Oh well

even sent it out the TSB to 6 members asking them to reply to my post to the mods, to just say "hey good idea - i second the motion" with NO results.

go figure

[cdru]

Originally Posted by Huney1

Now that Bleepster provided us with the TSB to get it fixed free, I wonder how many people who paid for the TSB repair are going to print out the TSB and take it to Mr Goodwrench and say, "Give me back my money!" And how about those that went to all the trouble and fixed it themselves. WHOA!

A TSB is NOT a reliable indication that GM is fixing a problem free or doing a recall. The purpose of a TSB is to provide supplemental information for a tech to do a repair. In the case of this TSB, it's to notify the tech of the wisespread problem with the intake manifold gasket, note that there is a new redesigned gasket, and update the specs for torquing the bolts. Other TSBS are for misprints, clarification of manuals, etc.

[Huney1]

CDRU claims, "A TSB is NOT a reliable indication that GM is fixing a problem free or doing a recall."

Okey-dokey, read this last paragraph from the link. http://www.noln.net/features/feature3.html
"Plus, some lawsuits are claiming that Dex-Cool is at least partially responsible for the string of intake manifold gasket failures on GM vehicles equipped with 3.1L or 3.4L V6 engines. For its part, GM has issued a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB 03-06-01-010) that entitles some owners of affected vehicles to a FREE gasket repair. The service bulletin blames the gasket material, not Dex-Cool, for the problem."

Veddy, veddy interesting link saying GM has been sued in eight states over the Dex Cool issue.
"Shortly after vehicles filled with Dex-Cool were sold, GM was presented with data and complaints from customers, its engineers, its dealers, fleet accounts, service technicians and the media of corroded, rusted and clogged radiators, eroded aluminum cylinder heads, eroded water pumps and thermostat housings, rotten and leaking radiator hoses, leaky heater cores and freeze plugs, corroded radiator caps, deposits within the cooling system, damaged and leaky cooling system gaskets, damage to the head gaskets, chronic overheating, damage to the engine, oil in engine coolant system, leaking coolant, deposits on the overflow tank and sludge in the engine coolant system," the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.
The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles.
The lawsuits are charging GM and other co-defendants with consumer fraud, and asking for "an award of damages, attorneys' fees, costs, pre- and post-judgment interest, and such relief as the court deems just and proper."


I'm not a lawyer but I have worked colections for a consumer finance company. I believe if I were forced to file suit in small claims court and asked for a jury trial and used the above document/link as evidence, presented the TSB as evidence, I believe I'd end up being awarded enough to get it done free. Heck, I have a lawyer friend and I bet if I took all the documentation to him he could write a letter that to the Chevy dealer that would check their pucker factor BECAUSE, IF we sued in court and won, not only would GM/Chevy dealer have to fix the manifold gasket for free, BUT they would ALSO have to pay the attorneys fees, court costs and serving fees. You have a problem like this and sue in small claims court, ALWAYS ask for a jury trial because the jury always relates to the average working stiff who is getting shafted by the big company or corporation. Like the link said, you could throw in consumer fraud and make reference to the Tort law; "strict liability torts(e.g., liability for making and selling defective products." http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Tort

Please click, "Products Liability."


Hmmm . . . Now that I have this all before me, might be best to go ahead and sue in BIG court.



Doggone it, IMHO, fact of the matter is, GM put a defective gasket in some of the engines and they should have stepped up to the plate and done the right thing and made good on them. That's all, . . . just do the right thing and treat people right.

" the Illinois suit alleges, adding that as early as late-2000, GM engineers were observing coolant contamination in several thousand GM off-lease cars less than four years old.The Illinois lawsuit also said that at a presentation by GM engineers at the 2001 MACS convention in Orlando, Florida, the engineers told attendees that there are cooling system problems in GM vehicles."