Tuning with mods..

[MaXXuS]

I am planning on this, front mount intercooler & ic piping, cold air intake, 3" catback exhuast, blitz/HKS BOV on stock turbo. What kind of tuning would I need to do/have done with these sorts of mods?

[dsmkid95]

As far as the CAI goes, i would recommend on using the money towards that on something else seeing as the stock intake can support some 300-325hp as it is. Yeah you will get that nicer spoolup sound but is not need to make power unless you have plenty of other supporting mods.

As far as exhaust. i didnt see you mention Up-pipe and downpipe which are prob. 2 of the most effective pieces on the exhaust. Reason being is because of the cats restricting everything. You will definately need to replace those if you want to see some decent gains.

To get everything tuned and running BEE-U-TIFUL you'll def. want to get an AP and tune it or pop on some staged maps and that will unleash some power and have everything running nicely.

Hope some of this helps!

[MaXXuS]

Originally Posted by dsmkid95

As far as the CAI goes, i would recommend on using the money towards that on something else seeing as the stock intake can support some 300-325hp as it is. Yeah you will get that nicer spoolup sound but is not need to make power unless you have plenty of other supporting mods.

As far as exhaust. i didnt see you mention Up-pipe and downpipe which are prob. 2 of the most effective pieces on the exhaust. Reason being is because of the cats restricting everything. You will definately need to replace those if you want to see some decent gains.

To get everything tuned and running BEE-U-TIFUL you'll def. want to get an AP and tune it or pop on some staged maps and that will unleash some power and have everything running nicely.

Hope some of this helps!

Yes my thinking was have all the piping done, then throw the up pipe & down pipe on at the same time. Pardon my dumbness, but what is an AP?

[Right_LiRrr]

I don't know what AP stands for but I'm sure he means some sort of aftermarket engine management unit.

You will need to tune the ECU one way or another or the bolt ons won't work. Either some sorta interceptor unit (e.g. unichip) or software that changes the stock ECU's maps (e.g. Ecutek).

[MaXXuS]

Originally Posted by Right_LiRrr

I don't know what AP stands for but I'm sure he means some sort of aftermarket engine management unit.

You will need to tune the ECU one way or another or the bolt ons won't work. Either some sorta interceptor unit (e.g. unichip) or software that changes the stock ECU's maps (e.g. Ecutek).

So without any ECU tuning I will show absolutly no gains? What would you recommend for a cost effective ECU tuning?

[freakray]

Reading your post, I am getting the impression you don't understand what ECU tuning is.

After the mods have been performed, take the car to a workshop that can tune the ECU according to the mods you have performed, this will give you the real performance gains.

[Right_LiRrr]

Originally Posted by MaXXuS

So without any ECU tuning I will show absolutly no gains? What would you recommend for a cost effective ECU tuning?

You will show some gains, usually coupled with boost spikes here and there. Then your stck ECU will "learn" to operate with the modifications and you'll be back to the same level of power you had before.

With light to medium mods, the most cost effective tune will result in the workshop giving u an ECU with a preset tune e.g. air/fuel mixtures, boost etc that works on cars with that kind of mods. It will give u a nice gain but a custom tune will squeze the max amount of hps out of your car (usually not THAT much more, unless u got heavy mods).

The kind of aftermarket ECU really depends on your preference since with light mods (like u got) it doesn't matter if u get an interceptor chip or "reflash". That is you either by unichip or motech or the likes, which comes with some fuel maps etc that work and they plug it into your stock ECU and it overrides the factory programming for certain things (the important power getting things). Or if you want some stealth e.g. from police etc, you can use stock ECU tuning software like Ecutek which edits the maps on the stock ECU.

Both kinds of ECU tuning have been well proven, imo, it's personal preference, with one side usually not liking the way the other side works. And there's no such thing as a cheap ECU tuning (not in Aust anyways, I don't know about USA). Cos they gotta dyno your car as well etc etc.

[MaXXuS]

Originally Posted by Right_LiRrr

You will show some gains, usually coupled with boost spikes here and there. Then your stck ECU will "learn" to operate with the modifications and you'll be back to the same level of power you had before.

With light to medium mods, the most cost effective tune will result in the workshop giving u an ECU with a preset tune e.g. air/fuel mixtures, boost etc that works on cars with that kind of mods. It will give u a nice gain but a custom tune will squeze the max amount of hps out of your car (usually not THAT much more, unless u got heavy mods).

The kind of aftermarket ECU really depends on your preference since with light mods (like u got) it doesn't matter if u get an interceptor chip or "reflash". That is you either by unichip or motech or the likes, which comes with some fuel maps etc that work and they plug it into your stock ECU and it overrides the factory programming for certain things (the important power getting things). Or if you want some stealth e.g. from police etc, you can use stock ECU tuning software like Ecutek which edits the maps on the stock ECU.

Both kinds of ECU tuning have been well proven, imo, it's personal preference, with one side usually not liking the way the other side works. And there's no such thing as a cheap ECU tuning (not in Aust anyways, I don't know about USA). Cos they gotta dyno your car as well etc etc.

Well here is the thing my car has Electronic Throttle Control and I haven't been able to find any piggy-back computers for that yet. I dunno if any shops around here do that for the 06's. Anyways, i talked to this guy who works for greddy today and he told me I shouldn't need any ecu tuning unless I am upgrading injectors/turbo manifold. I asked him if I was going to see gains from such mods as intake/intercooler and he said yes, I asked about up-pipe/downpipe and exhuast and he said I should be fine and again said those are considered smaller type upgrades and that there isn't really any need for ECU tuning at that point. Well the point of me telling you guys this is because this is where my research got me and I am not trying to argue, I am only trying to learn. Also about the ECU adjusting, he said mine should be able to adjust according to the air intake/flow & output.

[Right_LiRrr]

Well, sorry if my post implied it, but you will see SMALL gains from no ECU tuning. But to get more power out of your mods you will need to ECU tune. If there are no piggy backs out atm, try Ecutek. I know MRT down here i Sydneyhave already got the right maps fo the 06. They recommend ECU tuning too.

I don't about the guy you talked to, but it is well known amongs impreza fans that the turboed versions from bugeyes onwards need ECU tuning to see good gains from any mods because the stock ECU is programmed to reject mods.

[MaXXuS]

Originally Posted by Right_LiRrr

Well, sorry if my post implied it, but you will see SMALL gains from no ECU tuning. But to get more power out of your mods you will need to ECU tune. If there are no piggy backs out atm, try Ecutek. I know MRT down here i Sydneyhave already got the right maps fo the 06. They recommend ECU tuning too.

I don't about the guy you talked to, but it is well known amongs impreza fans that the turboed versions from bugeyes onwards need ECU tuning to see good gains from any mods because the stock ECU is programmed to reject mods.

Damn that sucks balls..

[Purple_Haze]

dont mean to steal the thread here, my questions are directed towards MR. Right_Lirr. You seem to be a knowledgeable person with will to answer questions from noobs.

I'm currently looking at a 2002 WRX that would be my DD. (Got tired of my Cherokee on 33" tires, anyway i come from 4x4 country). I also owned FEW 72-77 Celicas with Dual webbers on RG engines and etc... basicaly got tired of carbs, smell of gasoline, and playing in mud and rocks

What would be the best mods to do first on a bugeyed subbie? This will be my dd for 99% of time, once in a while i will do some autocross or something like that with it.

Here is the mods i would like to do to the car, does that sound "smart" or is it a waste of money? where can i find out which manufacturers for these would be the best?

Catback system
down pipe
pulleys
bigger intercooler/tilt kit?
header
k&n
coil over tein-s?
strut tower braces
H brace???

im not planning on getting a bigger turbo yet, and that means, next few years... i just want to get everything whats in the stock engine, efficiently without being it not reliable.

[Right_LiRrr]

Originally Posted by Purple_Haze

dont mean to steal the thread here, my questions are directed towards MR. Right_Lirr. You seem to be a knowledgeable person with will to answer questions from noobs.

I'm currently looking at a 2002 WRX that would be my DD. (Got tired of my Cherokee on 33" tires, anyway i come from 4x4 country). I also owned FEW 72-77 Celicas with Dual webbers on RG engines and etc... basicaly got tired of carbs, smell of gasoline, and playing in mud and rocks

What would be the best mods to do first on a bugeyed subbie? This will be my dd for 99% of time, once in a while i will do some autocross or something like that with it.

Here is the mods i would like to do to the car, does that sound "smart" or is it a waste of money? where can i find out which manufacturers for these would be the best?

Catback system
down pipe
pulleys
bigger intercooler/tilt kit?
header
k&n
coil over tein-s?
strut tower braces
H brace???

im not planning on getting a bigger turbo yet, and that means, next few years... i just want to get everything whats in the stock engine, efficiently without being it not reliable.

Basically u wanna start with letting the engine breather easier. When it comes to bugeyes, this means the exhaust. So you're gonna need wider pipes from the engine back. I think the stock intake can handle quite a bit of power so replacing the stock filter with K&N or the likes will do.

You're going to need ECU tuning as well, or the engine won't even notice you've spent 1K on the exhaust system =P This is the expensive part if you want even a standard mapped tune let alone a custom tune. It's probably a good idea at this stage to increase the boost by about .5-1PSI to make up for the wider pipes (can be done with the ECU tune).

This will pretty much do to get quite a nice gain. Also will increase fuel mileage dude to the more efficient exhaust and more boost.

Remember, if you want reliability for a DD then you don't want crazy boost gains. Just enough to make up for the wider pipes without pushing it.

I think at this stage your power levels would be enough for a DD.

If you want to take it to autocross, you're gonna need some suspension work. The most important and cheap piece you'll need is a thicker swaybar at the rear. This will negate most of the understeer inherent in the WRX. I think 22mm is what ppl recommend, don't quote me, i can't remember, just that number rings a bell. You'll then want some stiffer springs and lowered by about 15-30mm as well. I'd go towards the 15 rather than 30 cos i hate worrying about speed bumps. I don't know if coilovers are that necesary. It depends how much you want comfort vs handling. I think stiffer springs and slightly harder shocks may be better than coilovers (that's what i hear ppl recommend when it's ur daily driver). Strut braces and the likes are also good cheap things for handling. If you ignore coilovers, making the WRX handle better will cost cents compared to power gains...and all the more fun too!

If you want more power at this stage, you're going to need bigger injectors (530cc is probably good enough), fuel rails and fuel pump (probably one good for 500hp is enough) to ready for the new turbo. You want a turbo to make power more efficiently rather than huge power. This is because the stock TD04 levels off at about 6000rpm and tapers towards readline, dropping by about 1-2PSI?. I think most recommend the IHI VF34 or VF30. This new turbo will of course make bigger boost but more importantly hold it better. 17PSI is about the right setting for a DD reliability.

If you decide to do the turbo addition as 2 step process i.e. exhaust intake first, then fuel stuff and turbo as 2nd step, you will need to think about how you're going to tune it. That is, your tune for just the exhaust is not going to be good for a new turbo. So you'll need to get it tuned again.

With all these power gains, you should be looking at about 250hp at the wheels.

As with the intercooler, no need without the bigger turbo, but will squeeze out those last few hps hidden around. You may wanna get a water spray kit too. Same with pulleys, not much more either (of course, depending on many things) . But what I've written above will be the bulk of your power gains.

As with manufacturers, just a company that is reputable is good enough. You don't need all the fancy brands because as long as it is well made it's good enough (i.e. you're not building a race car). I like MRTs philosophy when it comes to WRXs so most of the parts I would get would be MRT e.g. the exhaust. (and they're aussie so gotta support the economy, lol). But for turbo, probably best for IHI, I think they're a lot easier since the STi uses them.

Sorry if this is all muddled, i need some sleep. lol Also its not as techinically details cos it will probably just confuse u haha

Good luck with it. Most of the above is my plans for my car....when i decide to do it is any day now :P

[Purple_Haze]

Hey, thanks a lot your info was really helpful, if you want to ad any more thoughts be my guest, as soon as i get one, i will post pics and let you know what it is, thanks a lot!!!

[Right_LiRrr]

Np, good luck with your endeavours.

In the future, even though your topic was highly related to the original poster's, it's best to start ur own thread so no one feels hijacked.

[keita]

I came into this thread late, but let me tell you....your modding plan is all wrong....just completely scrap it, you're wasting your money. Before spending a dime on a mod, you need to spend some time learning about mods and how they can make your car perform better, b/c from what you're listing above, you haven't read shit. There are plenty of sites with good information, and they are free...use them wisely.

Absolutely no need for an FMIC with a stock turbo....scrap that.
Cold air intake in a turbo car.....stupid idea, scrap it (some exceptions apply, but not here.)
BOV???....scrap that shit.

You need to start with an ECU remap with one of your choice: AP, utec, ecutek, etc.

Get Turbo back....catback isn't gonna do much for you, and then an uppipe.

That's a good starting point for less than $2000.

After you have studied and undestood the basics, come back to ask questions.