need help for new injector(s)

[saturnspeed_12]

ok so ive got the engine stripped down and ready to clean up for new gaskets. the old gaskets were blown out and some plastic from the lower manifold gasket must have gone into the engine. but anyways, i was cleaning everything up and replacing all the injector o-rings when one of the pintle caps cracked and broke off. all the other injectors are fine, put new o-rings on them, and they are back on the rail.

my question is, i have looked up replacement injectors for it, $100 and i dont think its readily available. so i looked up at summit, being curious and the retail store isnt far, and saw a set of 6 accel 19# injectors for almost $200. im thinking hell for $100 more get a brand new set, since the one new on is most likely going to out flow the old ones. but im not certain on the flow rate of the stock. im thinking it is 19#, looked it up on one place and calculated that, but i want to make sure of it. also, im sure it is because most new vehicles are but i want to make sure of it, the stock injectors are saturated(high impedance) right?

[BNaylor]

The stock fuel injectors for a L36 engine are of the high impedance variety.

Rating for L36 Series II 3800 is around 21.6 lbs.

[saturnspeed_12]

well when i checked with summit, they showed 19# through various model lines with 3.8. when i checked another site, they showed the injector flow at 208cc at 3bar so pretty much 44psi which would be about 20#.

i want to make sure there will be enough fuel but not too much, so it runs properly without overloading the injector. i have found the 19# and 21# at summit. so you would most likely choose the 21# injectors?

oh here are the choices, 19# and 21#

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...9&autoview=sku

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by saturnspeed_12

well when i checked with summit, they showed 19# through various model lines with 3.8. when i checked another site, they showed the injector flow at 208cc at 3bar so pretty much 44psi which would be about 20#.

i want to make sure there will be enough fuel but not too much, so it runs properly without overloading the injector. i have found the 19# and 21# at summit. so you would most likely choose the 21# injectors?

oh here are the choices, 19# and 21#

I know you have a Series II 3800 but what year is your Intrigue?

I have a friend that works with GM/AC Delco. I can consult him by email and can get you a better answer tomorrow morning as to the exact # rating.

[saturnspeed_12]

its a 98. i dont know the manufacture date off the top of my head, and i think the sticker got scratched off, so if you need that i will have to check to see if its still there.

im sort of leaning towards the 21# after finding a site that had the injector flow rates on them. i searched but the injector numer: 0208-150-973. they said 208cc at 3 bar while the 21# are 222cc and the 19# are 202cc. im not sure if the bench test them at the same pressure. its kind of a toss up it seems. on one hand, the 19# seem to flow a bit less so they will work a bit harder, while the 21# seem to flow a bit more so they wont work a little less. id rather have them work at a lower percentage then work harder, yet i want it to run perfectly and retain its gas mileage (which probably will increase). i guess it all depends on what pressure they bench them at.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by saturnspeed_12

its a 98. i dont know the manufacture date off the top of my head, and i think the sticker got scratched off, so if you need that i will have to check to see if its still there.

im sort of leaning towards the 21# after finding a site that had the injector flow rates on them. i searched but the injector numer: 0208-150-973. they said 208cc at 3 bar while the 21# are 222cc and the 19# are 202cc. im not sure if the bench test them at the same pressure. its kind of a toss up it seems. on one hand, the 19# seem to flow a bit less so they will work a bit harder, while the 21# seem to flow a bit more so they wont work a little less. id rather have them work at a lower percentage then work harder, yet i want it to run perfectly and retain its gas mileage (which probably will increase). i guess it all depends on what pressure they bench them at.

I'm quite sure the injectors need to be rated at 22 lbs of flow per hour. For example: Bosch makes direct replacement fuel injectors 22# for the GM V6 3800 with VIN "K", part number 0280150561 (11141) and specifies for the following vehicles applications:

Fitments:

Buick:
1996 Regal 231(K) 3.8L
1995-2000 Electra 231(K) 3.8L
1995-2000 Park Ave 231(K) 3.8L
1995-2000 Riviera 231(K) 3.8L

Chevrolet:
1998-99 Lumina 3.8L
1998-99 Monte Carlo 3.8L

Olds:
1998-2000 Intrigue 231(K) 3.8L
1995-00 98 231(K) 3.8L
1995 Custom Cruiser 231(K) 3.8L
1995 Delta 88 231(K) 3.8L

Pontiac:
1995 Bonneville 231(K) 3.8L
1995-00 Grand Prix 231(K) 3.8L


Note: This Bosch injector has the identical specifications as your original GM parts. No modifications need to be made to any part of your engine.

[saturnspeed_12]

yes, i just found that the 0208-150-561 replaced the 0208-150-973. but this isnt good then. i will have to see if accel has a 22# set of 6 in stock at summit. i was hoping the 21# would be it, although they would work, im going to try and find the 22# ones. i hate injectors , haha too much of a hassle.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by saturnspeed_12

yes, i just found that the 0208-150-561 replaced the 0208-150-973. but this isnt good then. i will have to see if accel has a 22# set of 6 in stock at summit. i was hoping the 21# would be it, although they would work, im going to try and find the 22# ones. i hate injectors , haha too much of a hassle.

Yeah, it is better safe than sorry on the injectors. Just to give you a comparative idea the fuel injectors on a L67 SII 3800 are rated for 33 lbs flow per hour, 33#. Too small of an injector would hurt later if you decide to mod out. Good luck and let us know how it all goes.

[saturnspeed_12]

ok well im thinking about going with the 21#, because the other choices is pretty much a 24#. but i was wondering, do you know the fuel pressure at idle and under throttle? im going to see about how the 21# injector flows at an adjusted fuel pressure. if it isnt what i need then i might hop up to the 24# injectors. i just need to figure this out quick, because friday is coming quick!

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by saturnspeed_12

ok well im thinking about going with the 21#, because the other choices is pretty much a 24#. but i was wondering, do you know the fuel pressure at idle and under throttle? im going to see about how the 21# injector flows at an adjusted fuel pressure. if it isnt what i need then i might hop up to the 24# injectors. i just need to figure this out quick, because friday is coming quick!

Fuel pressure should range from 48 - 55 psi. Readings vary depending on whether vacuum is disconnected or connected at the fuel pressure regulator.

[saturnspeed_12]

ok so something very strange came about when i corrected for fuel pressure. this will only stand if the accel injectors are benched at 43.5psi.

so i did the correction for a bench psi of 43.5 to the cars base of 48psi. on a 21# injector with the correction, it showed 231cc. so i calculate the cc's of a 22# injector and it comes out to 231cc. so i now think the 21# injectors should be fine.

thanks for the help, and hopefully accel bench tests the injectors at 43.5psi like most other companies so the math i did stands.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by saturnspeed_12

ok so something very strange came about when i corrected for fuel pressure. this will only stand if the accel injectors are benched at 43.5psi.

so i did the correction for a bench psi of 43.5 to the cars base of 48psi. on a 21# injector with the correction, it showed 231cc. so i calculate the cc's of a 22# injector and it comes out to 231cc. so i now think the 21# injectors should be fine.

thanks for the help, and hopefully accel bench tests the injectors at 43.5psi like most other companies so the math i did stands.

You are welcome. Sounds like 21# should work fine. Let us know how it turns out. Good luck!

[saturnspeed_12]

ok update.............

got the injectors, installed the, and went to crank it so i could get the marvel mystery oil out from in back of the intake valves, and i hear pppppppppssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhh. i turn the key off, and check the injectors. i smell no gas and see nothing. so i go back in the car, and turn the key on and wait a while and i then could tell the fuel was leaking somewhere. i turn it off, check again and the #1 injector was leaking.

this has me dumbfounded. a new injector leaking at the o-ring? man this sucks. now i get to pull some of the electrical apart and pull them back off and it isnt fun getting these ones seated, so i had to individually place them into the manifold, then put the rail on then clip them on. well im in a very bad mood because its only issue after issue after issue. i still need to flush the coolant and change the oil. im so not in the mood to deal with it anymore, want it finished and OUT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

[saturnspeed_12]

ok so i got it all fixed and runs great, for a day. runs perfectly fine feels better and transmission is not shifting hard no more, or at least hasnt been. i think the trans is shifting fine now because the old coolant must have had too much antifreeze in it causes it to hold heat and overheat trans fluid, thats my thoughts. but runs fine.