'96 Grand Voyager 3.0 sputter, stalling

[slantsixness]

OK folks, now I have a question, before I go out and sink another $200 bucks in my old well worn Voyager....

The particulars:
1996 Grand Voyager Base 3.0L,3sp Automatic trans, 139,000 miles (yes it's that obnoxious "Soccer Mom Dark Green" too!)~lol

What happened:
Driving at 65mph, my voyager began to sputter, hesitate and stall, I pulled it over and it quit running. After a half hour, it would run but not well enough to move, and if I tried to raise the idle it would sputter, if I tried more insistently to raise the idle (flooring it!) it would backfire, but on a busy interstate, it was hard to tell if it was through the intake, or the exhaust, but I believe it was intake by what little I could hear. while it sputtered it threw some erroneous DTC codes for the Evap purge solenoid and a misfire, but the codes reset and it throws no DTC codes now. (no codes for O2 sensor, MAP, TPS or ignition trigger, nothing but the 55!

So, I shut it down, called AAA, and waited two hours for them to come tow it home. Since it was 30° outside, I started it, and let it idle once or twice for some heat. Right before the tow truck arrived, I started it up, and yeah...you guessed it... it ran like it always has! I towed it home anyway (heck, it was free!) At home after running for 30 minutes, I trusted it enough to take it around the block, and it seems to run fine now....

So I'm pondering this. I checked out everything I could think of that would cause this and the only thing I came up with was Fuel Pump and/or Regulator
I've exhausted my troubleshooting and mopar skills at this point, by trying to diagnose a Van that now appears to have absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I don't want to blow $200.00 on a new pump assembly for nothing, but I don't want to get stuck on the highway again with it either!

Has anybody else encountered this problem?
I'm looking fo $200 worth of moral support, I guess!! LOL!

[Rawyzf]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

OK folks, now I have a question, before I go out and sink another $200 bucks in my old well worn Voyager....

The particulars:
1996 Grand Voyager Base 3.0L,3sp Automatic trans, 139,000 miles (yes it's that obnoxious "Soccer Mom Dark Green" too!)~lol

What happened:
Driving at 65mph, my voyager began to sputter, hesitate and stall, I pulled it over and it quit running. After a half hour, it would run but not well enough to move, and if I tried to raise the idle it would sputter, if I tried more insistently to raise the idle (flooring it!) it would backfire, but on a busy interstate, it was hard to tell if it was through the intake, or the exhaust, but I believe it was intake by what little I could hear. while it sputtered it threw some erroneous DTC codes for the Evap purge solenoid and a misfire, but the codes reset and it throws no DTC codes now. (no codes for O2 sensor, MAP, TPS or ignition trigger, nothing but the 55!

So, I shut it down, called AAA, and waited two hours for them to come tow it home. Since it was 30° outside, I started it, and let it idle once or twice for some heat. Right before the tow truck arrived, I started it up, and yeah...you guessed it... it ran like it always has! I towed it home anyway (heck, it was free!) At home after running for 30 minutes, I trusted it enough to take it around the block, and it seems to run fine now....

So I'm pondering this. I checked out everything I could think of that would cause this and the only thing I came up with was Fuel Pump and/or Regulator
I've exhausted my troubleshooting and mopar skills at this point, by trying to diagnose a Van that now appears to have absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I don't want to blow $200.00 on a new pump assembly for nothing, but I don't want to get stuck on the highway again with it either!

Has anybody else encountered this problem?
I'm looking fo $200 worth of moral support, I guess!! LOL!

I am having similar problems after my 97 is warmed up and been on the highway for 20-30 minutes. It is sputtering every once and a while. It has not died on me as of yet though.

I replaced the fuel filter and air filter this weekend and added some cheapo fuel system cleaner crap. It hasn't had the problem yet, but then again it's only been 2 days.

If the van decides to act up on me again, I am going to replace the speed sensor, as that could be the problem. Might be yours too.

Anywho..
-Ryan

[RIP]

slantsixness - No, I haven't seen this yet. Living in a desert may have something to do with it. With you being in your line of work I can understand you going for wires and electrics from the get go. Think about the weather first. Cold weather will produce condensation in a fuel tank if you don't keep it full or close to it. I think Rawyzf may be on the right track. Try the easy stuff first. Pour a bottle of fuel water remover with the next few fillups and consider changing the fuel filter. If that doesn't work, then by all means get your meter out and have a ball. - from an avionics cone head.

Biggest headache we had when I was workin jets was the dreaded "INTERMITTENT" malfunction. Heredity didn't make me lose my hair!

[vipergg]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

OK folks, now I have a question, before I go out and sink another $200 bucks in my old well worn Voyager....

The particulars:
1996 Grand Voyager Base 3.0L,3sp Automatic trans, 139,000 miles (yes it's that obnoxious "Soccer Mom Dark Green" too!)~lol

What happened:
Driving at 65mph, my voyager began to sputter, hesitate and stall, I pulled it over and it quit running. After a half hour, it would run but not well enough to move, and if I tried to raise the idle it would sputter, if I tried more insistently to raise the idle (flooring it!) it would backfire, but on a busy interstate, it was hard to tell if it was through the intake, or the exhaust, but I believe it was intake by what little I could hear. while it sputtered it threw some erroneous DTC codes for the Evap purge solenoid and a misfire, but the codes reset and it throws no DTC codes now. (no codes for O2 sensor, MAP, TPS or ignition trigger, nothing but the 55!

So, I shut it down, called AAA, and waited two hours for them to come tow it home. Since it was 30° outside, I started it, and let it idle once or twice for some heat. Right before the tow truck arrived, I started it up, and yeah...you guessed it... it ran like it always has! I towed it home anyway (heck, it was free!) At home after running for 30 minutes, I trusted it enough to take it around the block, and it seems to run fine now....

So I'm pondering this. I checked out everything I could think of that would cause this and the only thing I came up with was Fuel Pump and/or Regulator
I've exhausted my troubleshooting and mopar skills at this point, by trying to diagnose a Van that now appears to have absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I don't want to blow $200.00 on a new pump assembly for nothing, but I don't want to get stuck on the highway again with it either!

Has anybody else encountered this problem?
I'm looking fo $200 worth of moral support, I guess!! LOL!

Hey I have the exact same van . I know this sounds simple but I have found this motor to be very finicky about any kind of water in the fuel . My 3.0 won't idle right at all when cold unless I keep gas antifreeze in every tankful . Go out and buy some ISOHEET , isopropol gas antifreeze , not methenol. Each bottle only treats 10 gallons so you need 2 per tank at least for the first couple of tanks . Put it in before filling the tank . Try this and see if that helps . I have the same 3.0 as yours , has 111000 miles now .

[mikmic2]

Originally Posted by slantsixness

OK folks, now I have a question, before I go out and sink another $200 bucks in my old well worn Voyager....

The particulars:
1996 Grand Voyager Base 3.0L,3sp Automatic trans, 139,000 miles (yes it's that obnoxious "Soccer Mom Dark Green" too!)~lol

What happened:
Driving at 65mph, my voyager began to sputter, hesitate and stall, I pulled it over and it quit running. After a half hour, it would run but not well enough to move, and if I tried to raise the idle it would sputter, if I tried more insistently to raise the idle (flooring it!) it would backfire, but on a busy interstate, it was hard to tell if it was through the intake, or the exhaust, but I believe it was intake by what little I could hear. while it sputtered it threw some erroneous DTC codes for the Evap purge solenoid and a misfire, but the codes reset and it throws no DTC codes now. (no codes for O2 sensor, MAP, TPS or ignition trigger, nothing but the 55!

So, I shut it down, called AAA, and waited two hours for them to come tow it home. Since it was 30° outside, I started it, and let it idle once or twice for some heat. Right before the tow truck arrived, I started it up, and yeah...you guessed it... it ran like it always has! I towed it home anyway (heck, it was free!) At home after running for 30 minutes, I trusted it enough to take it around the block, and it seems to run fine now....

So I'm pondering this. I checked out everything I could think of that would cause this and the only thing I came up with was Fuel Pump and/or Regulator
I've exhausted my troubleshooting and mopar skills at this point, by trying to diagnose a Van that now appears to have absolutely nothing wrong with it!

I don't want to blow $200.00 on a new pump assembly for nothing, but I don't want to get stuck on the highway again with it either!

Has anybody else encountered this problem?
I'm looking fo $200 worth of moral support, I guess!! LOL!

My friends Caravan, which also was a 1996, did the exact same thing, and it turned out to be the fuel pump. Of course, he did get stranded, like you temporarily but after a while it did run well enough to make it to an out of town shop. Sounds like you should just do what you know is right, and change the fuel pump now.

How's that for support???

LOL

Really though, he explained about the exact same thing as you, and it did turn out to be the fuel pump.

I normally do all of his work for him. I changed his timing belt and water pump for him, and would of done his fuel pump, but he was to far away, when it went out.

If I was just driving around town I would wait to see what happens. But it will usually show up the next time you hit the highway at the worst possible place.

Of course you could just load up the fuel pump and tools, and wait for that day. And you know that day will probably be 10 below with 30 mph winds, out in the middle of nowhere, where even your cell phone won't work. LOL

His Caravan was a deep blue, so it might not be the same. :-) He had about 160,000 miles on his.

[slantsixness]

Well,
As far as fuel system "finickyness". I wholeheartedly agree, that the 3.0 likes "pure" fuel. Most of the time, I put injector cleaner in it every other tankful, and it would quit the shuddering and hesitation.

Can't be the speed sensor, it's a 3 speed auto tranny, and it did this at idle and while moving.

The fuel in it was a brand new full tank (2 days ago) with about 60 miles of gas used, and yes, this was the time it got the injector cleaner again.

So the theory is;
it has to be the fuel pump, but you know as soon as I change it, it's going to be something else! (MAP sensor, TPS, Cap/rotor?... but that doesn't make sense since it runs fine now! and no codes for ignition problems, ever!)

As far as my van, 138,000 miles, no major repairs ever, except the fluid and filter change in the tranny twice (and cleaning the solenoid pack, like Mopar says NOT to!), tuneups, oil changes, the annoying squeaky brakes common to base model Minivans, and 1 battery...so I can't complain too much. Treat it right, and it'll keep on going!

I'll let you all know if the fuel pump solved the problem or not, I'll put it in thursday evening. $170 at Auto Zone, and that's the entire assembly! Better than over $300 Mopar quoted me for it.

I have two of these Vans, this one is a Base GrandVoyager with the 3.0, the other is a shorty Caravan ES, with 109K mi and a 3.3L and the infamous 4sp auto trans (and I've NEVER had trans problems, nor any other trouble with that one, either... I hope I'm not Jinxing myself here...LOL!!!)
The only vehicle I've ever found to be better than the Mopar mini Vans is the Pacifica, so we bought one of those this year! Sadly, the wife commandiered the Pacifica, saying that she didn't want it sitting in a commuter parking lot all day... so I get stuck with the Soccer Mom Van to drive to work... darn!

Thanks for all your inputs!

Tom

[RIP]

If I were in your shoes I'd probably do the same thing. Normally, I like to find the smoking gun so there's no doubt it's fixed. You're experiencing one of those times when your not absolutely positive but, you know you have to make a move. Time and apprehension have a way of making you take action. Please let us know how you do. Like most of us , I've never changed a fuel pump on this van. We'd all like to know what problems you came across and the best way to avoid them. Good luck.

[vipergg]

[quote=slantsixness]Well,
As far as fuel system "finickyness". I wholeheartedly agree, that the 3.0 likes "pure" fuel. Most of the time, I put injector cleaner in it every other tankful, and it would quit the shuddering and hesitation.


Remember though if you are just using injector cleaner this will not remove any water in the fuel , you need a specific water remover like Prestone or some isopropol gas antifreeze.

[ford2go]

Have to tell you that I have a 96 Caravan (AT 3 liter), and fuel has never been an issue -- 180k

That being said, all of the answers are possible, and I'll add one more.

For quite a while I had an intermittent no start -- and a couple of stallouts on the highway( not as frequent, but scary). I will say that when it quit, it seemed to go dead fairly quick -- and then later start as if it never had a problem ( 3 or 4 multi day stays at various dealers -- never failed for them)

Problem was the PCM. I pulled it apart, and it looked like the transistors that power all of the relays ( ignition, fuel, starter, and of course the shutdown)might have some contamination. The box was full of goo, but the transistors were mounted to the case for heat -- and there was some white residue leading down the side of the case to the connections. Looked like the goo didn't seal too well with the case.

Probably not your thing, but those relays control a lot of stuff -- and the computer controls all of the relays.

Good Luck

ford2go

[slantsixness]

Well, I did it. Put in the fuel pump Late yesterday afternoon

one concern:
EVERYBODY in the Auto Parts industry lists an pump "E7094M" as being a "direct fit complete assembly". This is the cheapest pump tou can find ($150.00).

Well, IT DOESN'T FIT, IT CAN'T FIT. DON'T GET BURNED! This pump is for some other Chrysler application, BUT NOT MINIVANS, or at least not 1996!

I used the Bosch N67642 ($203.00), after I returned the wrong one to Auto Zone. Thay did have the right one, too I was just trying to save money.."bad idea"...

So far, the van hasn't been driven much, since it was dark when I finally cleaned up and finished, but I will say that all of the "normal" hesitation I used to get when the van started is completely gone! Runs like it did when it was new, for once. It looks very promising that this was the problem.

But I think, just to be sure, I'm gonna hack into the PCM, because I have seen what Ford2Go said happen before. Heck, it's just a spare van now anyway....so a little more tinkering won't hurt anything.

When I know it's totally fixed, I gotta sell this crummy old '91 Previa Van I'm using now for a commuter train car. Anybody want a 4WD previa with 318,000 miles cheap (it's been REALLY well used)?

Tom

[slantsixness]

Good News!

The Fuel pump has to have been bad. The Van runs like new again (ok, it runs better than it has for a long time, give or take a squeak or two...)

I did check the ECM for corrosion on the board and contacts, transistor mounting etc, that wasn't a problem. Did the same thing with the BCM too, no issues there either.

I checked the old fuel pump out. disassembled it.... and Viola!----burned pump windings. Secondly, the pump motor shaft was gummed up, and the internal filter was darn near clogged, as far as I could tell and the regulator diaphragm was cracked.

I've Been running the van more than a week now since the repair.... even the typical early morning cough it used to have went away comletely.

Gotta love these Vans, I do!

Tom

[RIP]

Glad things went well. Thanks for the info on pumps and taking the time to make this follow up post. I wish more would do this. Forums are here for us to learn from. If we don't know the fix the purpose gets short circuited. Thanks for being one of the few to "complete the circuit". Cheers!

[mikmic2]

I'm also glad you posted the findings.

I have some unresolved threads, but as soon as I get them settled I will be back.

I'm glad you found the problem.

Just in time for the next one. LOL

Let's hope not. :-)