95 Camry intermittent start/stall problem

[wadehi48]

Wifes 95 6 cyl XLE, 98k miles started intermittent stutter on freeway...3 wks ago when accelertg. I drove it...fine. Week later chk eng lt on intermittent then while wtg for appt consistent. Cldnt start day of appt..towed to dlr. Started there imdtly. Scan showed #4 cyl misfire. Chek coil, plugs ok. Test drive ok...blew out IAC? Rec rplce idle control valve...same time due to oil leak rplc some belts,valve cover gskts, I added plugs too since had been 50k since last. $1200 later runs fine for 5 days then stalls on frwy. Cranks but no start, no ce lt on.Towed again...started immedtly.Scan shows no spark and no fuel...intermittent. Now suggesting replace ECM, a sensor and another part for $2k....sms to be searching for cause? Does this diagnostic path snd legit? Suggestions? Im in Hawaii. Toyota dlr is monopoly..only one. No other source Im awre of...car has been great til now. Been told it can go150k miles easily as 98% of current is hiway miles...but dropping$3k+ into such an old car seems pot crazy? BTW, I am not real car guy....just superficial understanding.

[Brian R.]

I have never seen anyone come back after solving a problem on this board and saying they had to replace the ECM and it solved the problem. Never.

What codes come up on the scanner now?

[wadehi48]

I guess that doesnt bode well huh...I will see what they say tomorrow re codes. Late today, they seemed to think it had been solved by the replacement of the sensor. I dont remember which one....this whole thing is like a foreign language.

[Brian R.]

No, that's good. Replacing the ECM is an expensive proposition. Everything else is cheap in comparison.

[wadehi48]

OK dlr replaced the EFI relay and test drove car. OK. We pu yesterday and it stalled @ the light outside of the dealer....my wife almost had heart attack. I took over car, started and ran fine....drove around,errands then home ok. This am started and it idels high 2000 1st then drops down to 1200-1800 on tach. Havent driven yet today...will later.

Per dlr notes on latest charge they initially suspected ECM and ignitor....big $$ . ""They cld not get car to stall, no dtc codes. Next day rd test, car stalled, no eg lite came on..restarted after 10 seconds after engine lt came on...led to ? about ECm i.e. no power or grnd at ECM.They "wiggle test harness at ECM ok...check EFI relay pin drag ok" but recod change relay anyway....which I did.This supposedly supplies power to the ECM. They rdtested and it was fine for 9 miles....they didnt tell me but noted tht the customer should drive car b4 further diagnostics.

My sense is this is not done or over and its becomeing a "black hole"....almost $1000 into it for this problem with no clear sense its solved.

Does any of this lead to anything on your side?

[Brian R.]

I would try replacing the coil, rotor, and distributor cap. You can do it yourself, it is reasonably cheap, and a known problem with all cars.

Download and refer to the '94 Camry maintenance manual from the link in the sticky post at the top of this forum.

[Shadetree Mechanix]

.....

[Shadetree Mechanix]

Originally Posted by wadehi48

...$1200 later runs fine for 5 days then stalls on frwy. Cranks but no start, no ce lt on.

I don't get this part. How couldve you confirmed no check engine light if the car didnt start?

Originally Posted by wadehi48

...Towed again...started immedtly.Scan shows no spark and no fuel...intermittent. Now suggesting replace ECM, a sensor and another part for $2k....sms to be searching for cause? Does this diagnostic path snd legit? Suggestions?

The dealer could have easily installed a different ECM temporarily just to eliminate probable cause. If they charged you for a new one, why couldn't they give you a warranty for a problem unsolved?

Originally Posted by wadehi48

...Im in Hawaii. Toyota dlr is monopoly..only one. No other source Im awre of...car has been great til now. Been told it can go150k miles easily as 98% of current is hiway miles...but dropping$3k+ into such an old car seems pot crazy? BTW, I am not real car guy....just superficial understanding.

It could be a harness problem. Something somewhere could be shorting out intermittently, wreaking havoc on the ECM. But then again, I agree with your economic assessment. If you don't want to spend more money on this car, at least try to get the dealer to honor the warranty agreement.

[Strider327]

Is the car getting tremendously hot? I had a similar problem. But it turned out it was the ECT Engine Coolant Temperature sensor. The car will automatically just shut off and when you start it up again it will come back like there's no problem. Have that looked at. Since you already did most of the main stuff.

[burchard]

If this is a warm stall there is a good chance that the temp sensor of the coolant is defective. When the sensor is defective it send a signal to the computer indicating that the coolant is cold and the computers send more gas to the engine. Then you have to much gas and the engine will crank but will not start. After a few minutes it will start. This is a very erratic problem and it only happens at certain temperatures of the coolant. Best advice, change the coolant temp sensor (about $50) and it will take less thanfive minutes to change since there is no need to drain the coolant.
good luck

[wadehi48]

OK finally got back to this. To clarify they DID not replace the ECM. They did a "wiggle" test on the harness felt it was ok also check the efi relay pin drag felt it was ok. (Btw this is just restating whats on the svce rcpt...is all French to me). The Relay was reco'd to be replced and was...but apparently was not the issue.

Since post 2/26 car was fine for 5 days on short trips. On Saturday 3/4 it started then stalled while reversing inthe driveway. It went from an idle of 2000 to 500 and the CEL came on for a second until I stepped on the gas and idle went back up then stalled. It started right away and was fine. I then drove it down the street where it stalled at the stop sign and would not start....cranked but no turnover. Neighbor helped push it to the side. Let it sit for 2 hours and started right away. Turned it around drove home andparked in drive. Our weather is warm...75 degrees with a little rain. Car was cold at start. Since ECm was not replaced no warranty there...great idea though that they could test one on temp basis. I am going to call dlr tomrow re appt. So far from above fdback it could be coil, dist cap and rotor which I can probably change. They had check the coil etc b4 and felt it was fine...car has not been hot when it stalled at least not since the 2nd trip to dlr.

So does any of this sound like a common problem? I dont mind putting some money into this if it will solve it. At this point even if it is only to sell the car I dont want to saddle someone with an unreliable vehicle and my sense is if we can fix it it can go for another 50k.

BTW thanks to all of you who have responded...I am not a car guy so when I go to the dealr its a financial guy talkign to an engineer so to spk....2 different languages.

[burchard]

Typical problems leading to a stall:
The air intake control valve that allows a car to idle gets dirty. You Just need to clean it. Search this forum. There is plenty of info ...

The EGR valve, also due to carbon deposits, will cause stalls but there are not that erratic and the car starts right away after a stall.

good luck

[wadehi48]

Latest on this all....yesterday I needed to get to the drugstore for prescriptions. Car drove fine for couple miles then at stoplight it "hiccuped" idle dropped from 2000-500 and stalled. Started right away and I drove on. In parking lot at store it did the same at idle while stopped reversing out of stall. On the way home on road it simply stalled while crusing at 25 mph. Restarted while coasting then stalled again at stoplight...started again and got me home. Total trip less than 5 miles rt. Seems to be less intermittent but also scary to drive. BTW, for the first time I smelled gas out the open window on stalls...like engine flooded?

Trying to get it to dealer today although I am apprehensive they have any idea on fix.

[burchard]

There is a good chance that your problem is related to :

The shaft of the EGR has a lot of carbon deposits (i think Exhausting gas recycling valve) , a cleaning should solve that problem.

The inteake air control valve (IACV) under the throttle body also dirty is not opening properly to allow the entrance of air while idling. Cleaning would do it.

The temperature sensor for the coolant. (ECT sensor)

mention this to the dealer technician

[wadehi48]

Thanks very much. That is exactly what direction I am going to give...literally printing out verbatim. They already replaced the IAC valve but no mention of the EGR.