Indepedant car Manufactors.

[Moppie]

Who are they? Because there are not many left in the world.

I can only think of:

GM.
Ford. (although both now own and controll and badge enginer so many other manufactors I dont know if they really count)
BMW
Honda (the ONLY Japanese one)
The New Rover
and an Indian company, I think called "Pricess".

can anyone think of others to add?

[hermunn123]

Daimler-Chrysler?
isn't Toyota independant?
Volkswagen?
Porsche?
De Tomaso?
TVR?
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?

[Moppie]

Originally posted by hermunn123
Daimler-Chrysler? Is a merger of two companies.

isn't Toyota independant? about a 30% share is owned by GM.
Volkswagen? Part of VAG (VW Audi Group)
Porsche? Part of VW
De Tomaso? Owned by GM
TVR? I think, and the reason I didnt list it, they are part owned by Ford
Caterham?
Westfield?
Morgan?

The last 3 are good ones though! altough I didn't bother listing them, as they are mostly glorified kit car makers.


I should have noted, that by independant i ment that merged companies like VAG and DaimlerChrysler dont count.


and is Panoz independant?

[hermunn123]

i do believe Panoz is independant.

[Fliquer]

Porsche is owned by Volkswagen

And I THINK Panoz is owned by Ford.

[Ssom]

hmmmmmm............Well Honda is independent of course, GM and Ford have do OWN a lot of companies, but that sorta kill's the independence So I would list them as off that one.

the new Rover, TVR and I am pretty sure Porsche are also independent.

Because last time I checked the VAG consisted of VW, Lamborghini, Cosworth, Audi, Skoda, SEAT, Bentley and Bugatti, no Porsche, although there were some ties between teh two a couple of decades ago

The FIAT Group is FIAT, Ferrai, Lancia and Alfa Romeo

Ford has Volvo, Land Rover, Mazda, Lincoln, Aston Martin, Jaguar and Mercury

Daimler Chrysler has Mercedes Benz, Chrysler, Dodge, Mitsubishi, Jeep and MCC

GM has Chevrolet, Opel, Vauxhall, Saab, Holden, Suzuki, Caddilac, Subaru, GMC, Saturn and Daewoo

BMW is NOT independent as it has Rolls Royce

Toyota has Daihatsu and Lexus

Nissan and Renault are partners, as are Peugeot and Citroen and Hyundai owns Kia


so I guess it stands at Honda, Rover/MG, TVR and the questionable inclusion of Porsche

[Moppie]

BMW is independant.
They just happen to own the rights to the rolls name.
That makes Roll no longer independant.

I was refering to Ford and GM not being truely independant because of excessive amount of badge enginering they do.


Im quite sure Porshe is part of VAG, and has been for a long time.
The Cheyane and new VW useing the same platform are the obvious give away.
But im sure the current CEO of VAG used to be in charge of Porshe and was promoted.
Prehaps Porshe is only half owned by VAG. in the same way Toyota is only part owned by GM.

[Tom_S8]

Porsche isn't independant and it's been like that for a long time... There were cars like VW-porsche (yes the name was like that) 914 in the 1970s... They were also colaborating with audi and it gave results with cars as RS2 etc. IT's a part of the VAG group...

[Porsche]

Originally posted by hermunn123
i do believe Panoz is independant.

Yep, ford just supplies the V-8's for the Esperante and AIV roadster.


Koenigsegg, they don't produce a whole lot, but they do have the CC and are inpendant and like Panoz, are supplied with engines.

Weinmann (sp) Produces the W Roadster, (In Bimmer mag) using the new M3 engine. They are independant I think.

Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Porsche

Are we talking like major names or small ones? I could name like 50 more little ones with production <100 units per year.

To avoid us just listing what could be unending list of low volume manufactors, prehaps a few conditions need to be set.

How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.

[Ssom]

Originally posted by Moppie




How about, must produce over 300units per year.
And must be an exporter.

Then that adds Caterham, Morgan and Qvale (Unless they are owned by Ford) and Westfield.



Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


Here is another one- The Malaysian company Perodua who make the Kenari (A Daihatsu Move built under lisence) and NIppa (A Daihatsu Mira done the same)

Ahh, very good!

And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)

[Ssom]

Originally posted by Moppie



Ahh, very good!

And so what about Proton? who builds old model Mitsi under license. (including all the EVO models)

Well perhaps even if they do own Lotus, there is OBVIOUSLY no sign of platform sharing between the two, only suspensions of the Impian and Satria GTi have any evidence of Lotus components

And the make Evo's under license as well :huh:

[Jay!]

Just throwing out there: Saleen and Maseratti.

Explain to me the criteria underwhich Honda qualifies, but Toyota doesn't. I know Toyota is part of a Keiretsu, but no other arms are in the auto manufacturing business (are they?). I know they are related to many of their suppliers. Lexus and Scion are subordinates, like Acura is to Honda.

In a similar vein, Subaru is part of the Fuji group (not GM), but they're the only auto-industry arm...

[Moppie]

Maseratti is owned 100% by Ferrari, and therefore Fiat.

Toyota is about 20-30% owned by GM. And, as you mentioned they are part of much larger company.
Just like Subaru is part of a much large company. Basicly, both of them have the huge recources of thier parent company to draw upon.
Honda however is just Honda. There is no large parent company, or for that matter smaller companys underneath.
In that sense they are totaly independant, and have no one else to fall back on.
BMW is in the same position, as are the other companys we have listed.

Acura and Lexus are no longer seperate companys, they are merly brand names used to help with Marketing in the rather ethnocentric US market.


I believe its important to point out the independant manufactors, as in my mind it some how makes them better than the others.
It shows they produce both an excellent product, and are able to practice excellent bussiness.