Wobble of Death Returns

[careless in NY]

hi everyone, thank you for all your suggestions on trying help me with my 98 Jeep GRC limited. i had taken many of your suggestions and advice, but, however, the problem continues. after replacing the track arm, the steering box, the front drag link, sway bushings, the shocks, the tires, after trying out OEM steer damper, and KYB heavy duty damper,and after $2500 the &#%$ problem is still there.it has become better, meaning the at least now the entire jeep doesnt wobble anymore, the vibration is now still just in the steering after hitting bumps on the hiway. i dont know what else to do anymore. whether continue with my mechanic who is really trying his best and who happens to be an honest man( who has not charged me for the time in just troubleshooting) or just take it to Jeep and hopefully they are already aware of this problem and would know exactly where to start looking inside the jeep.this really has us puzzled and me banging my head against the wall. i have no idea how much more money i have to put into this car, it is becoming now a financial strain. so at this point i welcome any other suggestions from you folks. thank you in advance, robert

[bringselpup]

If I remember back in your first post you said that Jeep sat for a year and a half. What have you done regarding the rubber that's on it?

When I first got mine from previous owner it had bad DW. As I got to know the vehicle I saw that both of the front tires had trouble keeping air. The wobble would worsen as they lost pressure over days. They had bad wear on them anyways and I replaced them. New tires that stayed at proper pressure and a new damper stopped my wobble.

I would look closely at what's up with your tires. They may look good but sitting a year and a half may have done something irreversible.

[dksob81]

Back when I had my DW last summer, I replaced balljoins (upper and lower), Drag Link, Tie Tod, Tie Rod Ends, Track Bar, Wheel Bearings, Shocks (all the way around), upper control arm bushing (the lower bushing were in very good shape), Sway Bar End Links and mounting bushings, new OEM damper, front end alignment, got new tires (had them rebalanced severals times) and still had no success with getting rid of it, then I got a heavy duty damper and I haven't had a problem yet.

Some people say the damper just masks the real problem, which could be, but isn't there a chance the Damper could be the actuall problem, in my case I believe it was, anyways it took care of my problem.

Also, another cause could be play in the steering box, I have play in my box in which adjusting helps but can't get rid of it totally. Tire Pressure is also another big one, make sure all you tires are at the right pressure (33 PSI is recommended from the factory for 235/75 R15 and 225/70/R15) Some people run as much as 36 PSI, which is fine.

[dksob81]

When you replaced the Track Bar, did you notice the thru-bolt hole (on the axle side) if it was egg shaped? Sometimes this hole gets egg shaped and the track bar will actually slide side-to-side, altho you cannot get it to do it with you hands under heavy load and pressure it will slide and give you death wobble.

Kevin has a page on his site dedicated specifically to DW and has a some things you might want to try, I dunno if there si anything in there that we haven't covered but it's owrth a look. As for the hole, he has a good way of fixing it, I did this to my ZJ although it was not egged shaped the hole was a lil bigger the the bolt so I figured, it was worth a try, but it really didn't help, but if yours is egg shaped then it might be the problem.

[bringselpup]

Rob,

Got your PM, ok so you've got new tires on that thing too. I'm with dksob, spring for a HD damper as a start. I put a new one from autozone on and the difference was noticeable at once. A year later and I think that maybe it's starting to get a little loose. I'll probably start shopping for a better one when the weather gets good enough to crawl under and replace it.

Whether they mask the problem or not if it's gone it's gone yes?

[careless in NY]

hi dksob81, thank u for all ur tips. i think my next step i to try out OME damper since many folks have recommended it too. and may even replace the sway bar and links too since it was one of the parts i still have not replaced yet.. i just sent out an email to www.kevinsjeepparts.com. i hope he will guide me along the way with this neverending process. i realize now i am not alone with this DW problem. for a moment there i thought i was alone. if this is a such a prevailing issue, why hasnt Jeep addressed this yet?? they should call in a recall.time will tell i guess. so far progress is being made, at least an 80% improvement from a month ago. i finished off with new tires dynamically balanced and wheel alignment. btw, my tires r 225/70/16 and i keep it at 36psi, what jeep recommends. those air guages r not too reliable sometimes. do u know of any goods one?? as for that egg shaped hole, i asked my mechanic to check it. he said it was fine.i may need to look at it myself next time i get under the jeep.if worse gets to worst i may even get the track bar kit kevin has, but first, i will try out his sway bar kit and the OME damper. the steering box is new and works well.thats all i have to report for now. i will keep u posted alog the way and welcome any more suggestions from u on this matter. thank you so far for ur kind help, robert

[careless in NY]

hi dksob81, thank u for all ur tips. i think my next step i to try out OME damper since many folks have recommended it too. and may even replace the sway bar and links too since it was one of the parts i still have not replaced yet.. i just sent out an email to www.kevinsjeepparts.com. i hope he will guide me along the way with this neverending process. i realize now i am not alone with this DW problem. for a moment there i thought i was alone. if this is a such a prevailing issue, why hasnt Jeep addressed this yet?? they should call in a recall.time will tell i guess. so far progress is being made, at least an 80% improvement from a month ago. i finished off with new tires dynamically balanced and wheel alignment. btw, my tires r 225/70/16 and i keep it at 36psi, what jeep recommends. those air guages r not too reliable sometimes. do u know of any goods one?? as for that egg shaped hole, i asked my mechanic to check it. he said it was fine.i may need to look at it myself next time i get under the jeep.if worse gets to worst i may even get the track bar kit kevin has, but first, i will try out his sway bar kit and the OME damper. the steering box is new and works well.thats all i have to report for now. i will keep u posted alog the way and welcome any more suggestions from u on this matter. thank you so far for ur kind help, robert

[careless in NY]

hi, thank u for ur tips. yes, i have new tires 225/70/16 at 36psi. so far progress is being made but the vibration is still there in the steering wheel, unlike before when the vibration also included in the entire jeep. that was not a good experience to go thru thats for sure. i nearly crashed the jeep a few times from the loss of control. i now, thru research in the net, i am not the only one with this DW problem. it seems to prevail in the jeeps and for the life of me why hasnt Jeep addressed this issue yet? there may be a lawsuit waiting to happen. i even documented this to my lawyer just incase i had an accident. but yet, no recalls from Jeep for this. meanwhile im checking out this great website www.kevinsjeepparts.com which has loads of info and parts to correct DW. as for the steering damper im going with the one everybody seems to recommend, old man emu brand, and then see how it goes. hey, any tips in finding a good reliable air guage? keep in touch, robert

[Cam7]

Ive had Death Wobble in my 93 Cherokee which almost has the same front end. Most use the same hubs, ball joints. I rebuilt the front end ball joints, tie rods, track bar, control arm bushings, heavy duty damper, aligment and wheel joints. Everything with only slight improvement untill I replaced the wheel Joints . I have a Grand and they use a Cv Joint instead of the Cherokees U Joint. after I replaced the wheel joints the problem became much better. You might take a look at the CV Joints to make sure thast they are good. My U joints looked and felt good but replaced them anyway. Cherokees are know to be worse than Grands on Wobble and aligment is suppossed to be a key factor. I had mine set at 0 degrees caster. I still have a slight wobble which I think is due to my Tires being a few years old.

[Biigpuker]

Sounds like it`s time for the dealer.

[YtseJam454]

Want to get rid of your death wobble? Aftermarket upper and lower control arms will take care of it. The OEM control arms suck and you can twist them with your bare hands but the aftermarket ones are solid and adjustable. Also Death Wobble becomes worse with positive caster. For some reason they have 7° positive caster when if you back off on the caster to about 3° positive it nearly eliminates all death wobble. So there you have it. I'd be willing to bet the farm this is your fix. Why you ask? Because I've cured several cases already with the same fix. Don't even bother replacing them with OE ones

[YtseJam454]

Check out these control arms, or shop around... http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2204372/2

[YtseJam454]

Death Wobble posts everywhere. I suggest some of you try the right fix

[dksob81]

Control Arms aren't always the right fix! Every DW is different, I replaced damn near every part on the front end except for the axle itself, before going to a HD Stabilizer which finally got rid of it and it's been about 7 months now.

I replaced the upper control arm bushing and the lower control arms with after market (ORGS Brand) lower control arms which still did not fix the problem.

Altho the caster is a big cause with death wobble, it really is only effective on lifted jeeps, not really a problem on stock jeeps. The real problem is there is a loose suspension/steering component. Altho changing the caster will most likely help the problem I do not think it will solve the problem, just like switching to a HD Stabilizer it will just mask the real problem and keep it less evident or less likely to happen.

[YtseJam454]

Originally Posted by dksob81

I replaced the upper control arm bushing and the lower control arms with after market (ORGS Brand) lower control arms which still did not fix the problem.

.

You should change the upper and lower control arms. If you do a dry park check and reveal no other problems it's a fact that excessive positive caster (spec is 7° + ) and those flim flam stock control arms will absolutely allow your Death Wobble. The lack of deflection and less positive caster has eliminated every single case of death wobble I have ever encountered after fixing or verifying the front end. I started working at a Jeep dealership in 1996so I am not talking out my ass here. You can only imagine how many cases of this I have encountered and eliminated but do as you like.